Erratic jw dogma virtue or vice?

greendawn

The jw dogma makers have tacitly admitted that numerous of their interpretations of the Bible are erroneous, by bringing in new ones to replace the previous. In fact they keep shifting their positions on most issues over the 130 years of their existence.

They try to present this as a kind of virtue: they admit their errors and humbly change them. However something very negative could be said about this erratic behaviour, something centred around an almost total ineptness to correctly interpret the Bible which then implies a lack of the claimed divine inspiration and direction which then makes them cunning, deceitful, charlatans. It wrecks their image of divine reps on this earth.

What can we say to their argument that this extreme doctrinal instability amounts to humility, a willingness to humbly admit mistakes?

Ingenuous

A good place for them to start would be to supply a list of articles where they've actually admitted their mistakes - and apologized. Given how many there have been, there should be a slew of such references if they were sincere. This would be especially so with someone who is humble, because such a person would be quick to admit they were wrong when they realized it and not what to be "found out" before coming forward.

A second idea to pursue would be documentation of how they've performed "damage control" - if they're actually humble and virtuous, they should be able to show how they've going back to all the places and people they've injured through their errors and made amends, corrected the damage, and made necessary restitution.

Third: If someone is really apologetic, they should show they've learned their lesson by not repeating the offense. And the Org's history with that is...?

*** w81 9/1 p. 24 Repentance Leading Back to God ***
.... A person who is repentant does not try to minimize or justify his bad course. He recognizes in his mind the wrongness of what he did and feels in his heart deep regret over having sinned against God.
.... the important thing is that the wrongdoer is touched at heart, having a spirit of agony or sense of deep regret over having offended Jehovah and damaged his relationship with God.
... What, though, if he did not voluntarily confess and the matter had to be established by his being confronted with evidence or the testimony of witnesses? He might still (there at the meeting) be reached, acknowledging his sin. (Note the example of David’s repentance over his sin with Bath-sheba, at 2 Samuel 12:1-13.) But, especially when extensive reproof had to be given before the wrongdoer began to make any initial expressions of repentance, should the committee exercise caution.
... does the wrongdoer show genuine remorse over the reproach, problems and sorrow that he may have brought on the congregation?
... If he sinned against an individual, has he confessed his sin to that person and asked for forgiveness?... Or if the wrongdoer is guilty of fraud, has he taken any steps to compensate for the loss? In some circumstances he might be unable to undo all the damage he has caused, but does he give evidence that reasonable steps will be taken to make up for any loss? (Luke 19:8) The point is, to what extent has the guilty person produced the ‘fruit befitting repentance’?

tetrapod.sapien

hey greendawn! long-time-no-see!

:)

TS

greendawn

Tetra thanks for the welcoming I was away on a trip longer than I had anticipated, I was expecting to be away for 3 weeks and I came back after 6 weeks. Where I was in the mountains there was no internet to keep in touch. I became very proficient at lighting wood fires even with wood soaked after heavy rains, and grilling chicken pieces and baking potatoes, onions, and other veg wrapped in aluminium foil, in the coals.

Ingenuous I really liked your points especially the one that the WTS should consider themselves liable for the damage they caused through their erroneous advice and make it good if they are really serious as an organisation. In practice this will never happen because they have caused too much harm to accept liability for it, including loss of life by suicide and refusal to accept blood transfusions and destroyng families through their disfellowshipping policies. They do not offer as much as an apology let alone a token compensation.

All in all we have here religious people assuming the capacity to deal with issues they do not really understand, through lack of a proper education or natural talent, and they end up messing up their followers lives like charlatan doctors.

Michelle5480

Intent to convince an active JW of these constant misinterpretations..........the always used excuse is "the light was not as bright back then but it gets brighter and we realize new things" why would Jehovah shine a dim light on people and let them get misinterpretations and misguide millions. Why does the light get brighter now than it was back then? Whose mistake is that and why did it happen? Of course when your bring these things up the word "apostate" comes up in the next sentence they utter to you, go figure.

greendawn

Michelle the whole notion of that incresing light jugglery is absurd because what we have from the WTS is not knowledge that is added to existing one so as to expand it but rather the total rejection of prior "truths" and their replacement by contradictory ones or at times by nothing at all.

Ideas are for ever constucted and demolished and they thus go round and round in circles never getting to anywhere useful.

thinker

Hi Greendawn,

I'm not sure that changing doctrines and beliefs are an effective tool to use with active JWs. In my experience the average JW is bored out of his mind and actually looks forward to changes of any sort just to liven things up. There's always a buzz of excitement when word gets out of an upcoming change, so trying to make changes look bad is a non-starter.

thinker

AuldSoul

It is all about spin-control. Propagandize to control perceptions and disfellowship anyone who comes to close to figuring out the real deal.

I wonder how many thousands there are who are all hanging on just because they are worried about what might happen to their family if they left. I wonder how many have a completely double-life but aren't themselves in public for fear of discipline.

There aren't many real JWs. I have been amazed at how many requests I have gotten in my circle of friends to discuss things off the record. "This goes no further than us, right? As far as anyone knows, we were talking about ____, right?" Yeah, sure. No problem. I'll keep the dirty little secret safe. But you will leave eventually, when you find out your elder father-in-law asked me to keep quiet about his feelings, too. Of course, I can't say that because I agreed to keep the confidence.

AuldSoul

Cygnus

There are tons of examples in the Bible where God's servants and prophets goofed up and needed correction, or corrected themselves. So it is today with God's modern-day prophet organization.

greendawn

Hi Thinker, I can understand that the JWs are a very frustrated lot since after the death of the "oracle" that is Fred Franz the supposed spiritual food has dried up and nothing new is coming out, the org has lost its vitality.

However when the light is strong enough to let them clearly see the outline of a tree, when it gets stronger you expect to be able to see things like branches, leaves, fruit, but if they tell you that as the light gets stronger they are beginning to see a house then you should think there is something wrong.

Auld Soul in this org it is indeed a case of: stop asking questions or get out. They are doing you a favour since false prophets and those teaching another gospel (as the jws do) as well as their followers are under curse.

Erratic jw dogma virtue or vice?

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