by forsharry 9 Replies latest jw friends
To those atheists and scientist-ies out there…what explanation do you have for the Divine Proportion (Phi) in relationship with the non-proof/proof of some kind of divine presence? Do you believe it is simply “coincidence” or is it a questionable aspect of the physical realm that might point to something higher than simply evolutionary ‘roulette’?
I ask this because it is one of my niggling questions that separate my belief that we’re either A.) a Galactic joke or B.) a Divine joke.
Article about Phi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
(Can't embed or it takes over the browser)
Interesting information, I hope this becomes a good discussion!
Dave
Why would one number (and an IRRATIONAL one at that) be more of a proof than any other number?
It's not really the number itself but the proportion. Phi is exhibited in all aspects of life, from the very proportion of the human body to acoustics, architecture, art, mathmatics, music, quantum physics, etc.
So is pi.
That's why I believe in the pi fairy.
Forgetting about the god/no-god angle on this, it's just cool that this ratio keeps popping up all over the place. Why does it show up in so many places?
I would imagine the natural explanation for it would be very interesting. Anybody have one?
Dave
Triagonal, hexagonal, tetrahedronal stacking, our universe's version of the strongest and most efficient engineering geometry, recurs in nature in contexts of static non growth. Think bubbles, marbles, organism cells, diamond crystal. Phi frequently recurs in contexts of growth, where there is something new that has to be found a place for, but that place cannot be where the originator or the originating population already is. Phi might be called growth stacking (in contrast to static stacking). The growth stacking that results in the physical shape of the Nautilus is an elaboration of the stacking hexagon of, say, a turtle’s shell. Keep in mind that it does this, not because it’s programmed to (unless you are absolutely helpless to believe that God programmed it), but because it is following the path of least resistance and highest efficiency, just like triangle stacking. If it recurs in various places like the face, I would argue that it merely exhibits the universe’s fairly inevitable deployment of a basic proportional toolset for making the most efficient use of limited resources. Obviously you don’t want your eyes too near your mouth where you might fork them, nor your ears too near your nose where you might place the q-tip incorrectly, nor your etc etc ad infinitum. Phi is the universe being efficient. Why would G O D have to be efficient? Isn’t he made of, like, Zeus-bolts? But if one doesn’t believe in God, one must acknowledge the local universe as finite in energy and matter. I would argue that Phi is the universe’s, quantum mechanics’, Newtonian physics’, and evolution’s equivalent of making a welfare check stretch. We only happen to have called it beautiful because we happen to be fond of living, but at base it’s nothing so miraculous.
rmt1:
We only happen to have called it beautiful because we happen to be fond of living, but at base it’s nothing so miraculous.
I agree.
No-limit poker is similar...as are the limitations of sub-micron circuit design.
And then, of course, we must consider the reasons for the intricate substructure of the various rings of debris about the planets in our solar system, Saturn's being the most observable. Why do they pattern themselves the way they do? Is it the "shepherd moons?" Or is there some much more subtle aspect of quantum-gravitation at work?
So many questions to ask God, when and if I finally ever have the chance!
i have no idea baby. i have no idea.
another thing we see in nature all the time, however, is the remarkable pattern/phenomena of organisms on earth being perfectly adapted for their ecological niche. some mastering them, and some transcending these niches, like us hoo hoo haa haas. we like patterns like this. patterns mean something, to us. to us, they mean something. something mean they, us to. us to, mean they something . something mean they ,us to ,.
[[email protected] /root]# no god found anywhere _
"and in the begining there was the command line..."
fors darling, i like how you said this:
I ask this because it is one of my niggling questions that separate my belief that we’re either A.) a Galactic joke or B.) a Divine joke.
nicely put. i like that.
tetragodel
That's why I believe in the pi fairy.
Now returning you to your regularly scheduled serious thread.
