Some definitions please...

by SammyDies 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  SammyDies

  Hello all,

  I am not a JW, but trying to just understand them as I have a new friend who is a JW. I apologise up front if I offend anybody through my ignorance.

  Firstly could someone explain "disfellowshipped". I read through some sites (particularly those by ex-JW's) who described being disfellowshipped as a horrible experience that is thrust upon them sometimes through no fault of thier own, or vindictiveness of certain eldars and church memebers, or for doing something wrong. I see disfellowshipped as being "kicked out" of the church.

  I described this to my friend (we call each other friends even though I am not a JW) who was horrified that I was reading these things (I'll come to that in my next question) and said that being disfellowshipped is an agreement made by the person in question to voluntarily leave the church.

  These are two different descriptions! Any comments please?

  Next, if someone is disfellowshipped are then referred to by JW's as apostates? Or are apostates ex-Jw's who speak out about JW's?

  My fiend was concerned that I was reading apostates' stuff and said that basically it is all lies and should be totally ignored.

  I have also read a JW book, it reads like a PR book selling JW's. It has nothing on disfellowship or apostates.

  I hope you can give me some information please.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Firstly could someone explain "disfellowshipped". I read through some sites (particularly those by ex-JW's) who described being disfellowshipped as a horrible experience that is thrust upon them sometimes through no fault of thier own, or vindictiveness of certain eldars and church memebers, or for doing something wrong. I see disfellowshipped as being "kicked out" of the church.

  It is in essence being 'kicked out' - but the treatment is the issue for most. You get 'shunned', meaning no one who is a witness will speak to you, even relatives and close friends. Also there is a painful personal announcement made at the hall making the one who is DF'd looking like he/she is wicked, no matter the crime, and no one is aware of the reasons, so the gossip ruins one's reputation in some cases too.

  I described this to my friend (we call each other friends even though I am not a JW) who was horrified that I was reading these things (I'll come to that in my next question) and said that being disfellowshipped is an agreement made by the person in question to voluntarily leave the church.

  Disassociation is the term for one who leaves voluntarily - but the treatment is same as disfellowshipping. The person may have done nothing wrong at all but is treated as if 'dead', not spoken to, ect.

  Next, if someone is disfellowshipped are then referred to by JW's as apostates? Or are apostates ex-Jw's who speak out about JW's?

  Apostates are any who dare to speak out against JW's or read or listen to anything that is negative about them. Among JW's it is considered the 'sin of sins' to ever do such. It is a disfellowshipping offense. Going to another church is also a DF'ing offense for example. Churches are considered wicked.

  My fiend was concerned that I was reading apostates' stuff and said that basically it is all lies and should be totally ignored.

  That is the premise that is proposed by JW's. The organization is tremendously insolar. I qualify as an 'apostate' in thier eyes since I left the organization, but I do not lie and consider myself Christian. They are terrified actually that members will learn the 'the truth about the truth'

  I have also read a JW book, it reads like a PR book selling JW's. It has nothing on disfellowship or apostates.

  Precisely - just like it is in reality - a recruiting tool for the cult of Jehovah's witnesses.

  I reccomend that you stay on this board for awhile and see what you can learn - I hope you can help your friend out of this destructive cult. The best over all understanding will come not from listening to just the witnesses, but to a broad perspective. I rec you read Ray Franz' book; Crisis of Conscience. He was a former member of the Governing Body of JW's and tells it like it is.

  Jeff
• 

  googlemagoogle

  disfellowshipping is "kicking out of the church" for many reasons. "gross sin" like an "adulterous lifestyle" or simple things like associating with someone who's already disfellowshipped. or because of questioning the organization's authority - this would be considered apostate.
  
  disassociation is leaving the church "voluntarily". has the same effects though - noone talk to you anymore.
  
  because as a JW you are encouraged if not forced to only associate with other JWs if possible, most JWs have no social life outside the religion. thus disfellowshipping leads to a complete elimination of their social life.
  
  which is the reason people like me simply can't leave. at least not that easily.
  
  as the JWs believe they (and only they) got "the truth", everything else is a lie. especially anything from so called "apostates".
• 

  undercover

  I described this to my friend (we call each other friends even though I am not a JW) who was horrified that I was reading these things (I'll come to that in my next question) and said that being disfellowshipped is an agreement made by the person in question to voluntarily leave the church.

  You have to ask, why is he horrified that you, a non-JW, are reading non-sanctioned information about his religion?

  JWs are trained to believe that any and all negative information about the religion is "apostate" and "from Satan". It's a cult tactic to maintain control over their members. Control the information they take in.

  Of course this doesn't apply to non-JWs, but JWs think only in JW absolutes so your JW friend reacted as if you were a JW reading "apostate" material. It was horrifying and scary to him.

  Again, you have to ask why we was so scared that you were gaining information on the religion from independant sources? Is information wrong? Is independant research wrong?
• 

  AuldSoul

  Practices of Jehovah's Witnesses: Disfellowshipping (excommunication) (Wikipedia)

  "Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates." (Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock p. 94 Apostasy)

  The Pay Attention book is what elders use to determine whether a particular sin is deserving of disfellowship. I hope you can help your new friend. If there is anything I can do, let me know.

  AuldSoul
• 

  Eyebrow2

  One of the things a JW will teach their bible studies is to study their current religion using the bible, and question whether it is really in line with the bible. YET, JWs are NOT allowed to dissect their own religion to make sure it is truly in line with the bible's teaching. Very hypocritical. If someone is sure they have the true religion, they should be able to withstand reading criticism about their faith.
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  Jez

  My story is on www.freeminds.org under the women's section entitled, "Pretending". Read that, and then read my thread about 'reinstatement'. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/100714/1.ashx

  I hope it helps you understand disfellowshipping and reinstatement.

  Also, an apostate is anyone that publically questions or disagrees the authority of the watchtower and bible tract society or JW doctrines. It is also someone that once was a baptized JW, but for whatever reason, leaves because they chose to not be one anymore. They have to do it quietly and not talk to others about why they left as it could fall under the category of questioning or disagreeing anything to do with the religion, and the dreaded 'disfellowshipping' could happen, where you are fanatically shunned by family and "friends". You are as if dead.

  Jez
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  Scully

  Disfellowshipping is the term used to describe someone who has been expelled from the congregation for any of a long list of violations of JW rules. It is supposed to involve a judicial process and meetings in most cases, but some people have been DFd without being given the benefit of a judicial hearing or an opportunity to defend themselves against the accusations made about them.

  Disassociation is the term used to describe someone who voluntarily leaves the organization. This has evolved over the years from being meant to apply to someone who writes a letter and formally "un-joins" the organization, and now also includes people who adopt a lifestyle that is in violation of JW standards/beliefs. For example, a JW who decides to take up military service will be deemed to have disassociated him or herself by their actions. It is increasingly being used as a loophole to avoid judicial proceedings when someone is in violation of JW rules. For example, a JW who has been seen entering a church by another JW, can simply be approached by the JW elders and asked if they consider themselves to be a JW. If they answer "No", then that is considered a verbal disassociation.

  Disassociation was sometimes in the past misapplied to minor unbaptized children of JWs who were acting out in a rebellious (ie, teenage) manner, for things like dating non-JWs, smoking, committing fornication, using drugs, playing the national anthem as part of the school band, etc.

  Both "labels" have the same outcome. The person is "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" and is to be shunned by other JWs.

  Apostates are those who used to be JWs and who make the JWs look bad. Even if what they are saying is true.