questions ....

by teejay 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    ... I used to wondered about all the time when I was an active dub:

    ==================================================

    Why is it that men who study with elders make Ministerial Servant and Elder way ahead of others who have been reaching out for years?

    Why do Circuit Overseers spend all of their time with the spiritually strong and never follow (or set) a Christ-like example of visiting those that 'need a physician,' the spiritally weak, like those in nursing homes and irregular or inactive publishers.

    Jehovah sent his Number One Son to the earth... the only-begotten. This superbly benevolent soul lived and died a perfectly sinless life. Why did twenty or more years go by before the Father 'inspired' men to write their biographies... two of whom didn't even know The Man personally? If that had been MY son, they'd of started to write a whole lot sooner... but that's me.

    Do elder's kids really get away with more than other kids or does it just seem that way?

    Why did Paul, a former persecutor of Christ's brothers and a witness to some of the killings, write so much of the New Testament? And why are the writings of so many of the people who actually knew The Man considered apocrypha?

    Why did Peter, after all his years of personal association with The Man, come off looking like such a chump in his confrontation with Paul?

    Does poppy grow on the Isle of Patmos?

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    teejay:

    Why is it that men who study with elders make Ministerial Servant and Elder way ahead of others who have been reaching out for years?

    The first person who studied with me was a well respected elder who at a very young age was one of the first to be appointed under the new arrangemnet in the late 1970's. Being around him, I got to see a lot of what goes on behind the scenes so to speak and if I had gottebn baptized while studying, I'm sure I would've been juiced in by the time I turned 18. Guys who had been around a while , but never advanced to higher positions in the org always seemed to have a air of independence about them. Either that or they had had personal conflicts with someone well known, a couple of elders, or had complained about the way things were in the congregation. They don't want anyone to rock the boat, ya heard?

    Why do Circuit Overseers spend all of their time with the spiritually strong and never follow (or set) a Christ-like example of visiting those that 'need a physician,' the spiritally weak, like those in nursing homes and irregular or inactive publishers.

    Although I wouldn't say that they never did any of those things, I'll have to agree that help for those with porblems and difficulities is woefully lacking. As long as everything is on the up and up, then you're cool. As soon as problems surface, they run from you like the plague. I think too many ppl see problems as evidence of Jah's disapproval.

    Do elder's kids really get away with more than other kids or does it just seem that way?

    Nah it's true. The high-school I attended down here was full of witnesses. So much so that it was known as the Jehovah-witness school. However, that didn't stop the kids of some elders to participate I committees organinzing the PROM and CLASS NIGHT. I thought we weren't supposed to participate in that. All these kids were baptized for at least 5 yrs by then and very active in their respective congregations. I still believe that the only reason nothing was done about it was because they were elder's kids.

    As far as tose other questions are concerned, I think they are reasons why the bible should be believed. However, that's just me and i know that I'm in a grossly underepresented minority here, so I'll answer those questiopns later, maybe. HA!!!!!

    ONE.....

    bigboi

    life's a bitch with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch.

    "it ain't what you do it's how ya do it"

  • ballistic
    ballistic
    Why do Circuit Overseers spend all of their time with the spiritually strong and never follow (or set) a Christ-like example of visiting those that 'need a physician,' the spiritally weak, like those in nursing homes and irregular or inactive publishers.

    They follow the biblical principle "to he that has, more will be given... and to he that has little, what he does have will be taken away.

    Unfortunately, they dont follow the biblical principle of love.

  • teejay
    teejay

    Bigboi,

    The first person who studied with me was a well respected elder ... if I had gotten baptized while studying, I'm sure I would've been juiced in by the time I turned 18.

    You're joking... get outta here!!

    Guys who had been around a while, but never advanced to higher positions in the org always seemed to have an air of independence about them. Either that or they had had personal conflicts with someone well known, a couple of elders, or had complained about the way things were in the congregation. They don't want anyone to rock the boat, ya heard?

    Sounds like someone I know... can you say "teejay"?

    ... I'll have to agree that help for those with problems and difficulties is woefullly lacking. As long as everything is on the up and up, then you're cool. As soon as problems surface, they run from you like the plague. I think too many ppl see problems as evidence of Jah's disapproval.

    To be honest, I'd forgotten about that excuse, er, I mean reason for staying clear of fellow brothers and sisters with problems. But don't they know about the many bible examples of righteous people who had bad times? Shouldn't that tell them that bad things happen to good people? <rhetorical questions> Oh, I forgot... the Watchtower Magazine supercedes the Holy Bible... dummy me. What was I thinking?

    The high-school ... was known as the Jehovah-witness school... some elders' [kids participated in organizing] PROM and CLASS NIGHT. I still believe that the only reason nothing was done about it was because they were elder's kids.

    You're joking... get outta here!!

    life's a bitch with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch.

    My goodness, Bigboi! How could you say something like that? That's a terrible thing to say! I can't stand Busch! (that line makes me laugh, and I feel guilty for laughing... you soooo bad, Big... so very bad!)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Why do Circuit Overseers spend all of their time with the spiritually strong and never follow (or set) a Christ-like example of visiting those that 'need a physician,' the spiritally weak, like those in nursing homes and irregular or inactive publishers.

    They follow the biblical principle "to he that has, more will be given... and to he that has little, what he does have will be taken away.

    Thanks, Ballistic. I knew there was a verse somewhere in there they were 'following.'

    btw, cool name. If you ever get mad at the board and decide to leave, (believe it or not, some have, y' know) I have a real cool post I wanna use: "Why have you gone, Ballistic?"

    peace,
    tj

  • JUSTAMOM
    JUSTAMOM

    Hello to all and to answer the first part of your question.....

    It is because these so-called shephards are what is described in JEREMIAH 23 and EZEKIEL 34.
    Also they are just like the Pharisees in LUKE 20:46-47 where he says,

    "Look out for the scribes who desire to walk around in robes and like greetings in the marketplaces and front seats in the synagogues and most prominent places at evening meals, 47 and who devour the houses of the widows and for a pretext make long prayers. These will receive a heavier judgement."

    *Now lets see if they wouuld allow themselves to be housed during a cos visit by individuals that would be viewed down upon. Like sinners, harlots and tax collectors. Jesus did.
    Lets see if they would truly be happy with fish and bread. (simple poor budget meal by a widow)

    *Ever got tired of standing at the end of a Sunday convention PRAYER because he was so long-winded.....???
    You were so tired you NEVER really paid much attention to it. Then after EVERYONE CLAPPED for 5 minutes. lol lol

    As to Paul and ALL his writings.
    Yes, he was a zealous brother of ours. But notice his letters were NOT written under inspiration. They were letters, commendation, readjustments to the congregations etc...
    Yes he does mention things that were given him by the spirit, but his letters or books were not "written under inspiration" as was...
    Moses, Psalms, Prophets and Revelation. (Luke 24:44-45)
    Paul was just like one of us who have received holy spirit and on occasion speak of our flesh and not of our spirit. And yes there is a danger. That is why we daily receive correction and discipline and HIS sons. But as long as we are still in the flesh as even Paul mentions, "What we wish to do is not what we find ourselves doing."

    May our lord and father be with you
    Your sister and servant

    JUST A MOM (Kim)

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest 'MOM... hey girl!... amen... and amen.

    Dearest Teejah... since most answered the 'secular' or institutional questions you posed, may I respond to the biblical... or 'spiritual'... ones, along with my girl, 'MOM? Thank you... and may you have peace!

    Jehovah sent his Number One Son to the earth... the only-begotten. This superbly benevolent soul lived and died a perfectly sinless life. Why did twenty or more years go by before the Father 'inspired' men to write their biographies... two of whom didn't even know The Man personally? If that had been MY son, they'd of started to write a whole lot sooner... but that's me.

    The only 'inspired' writing, that is, 'scripture'... is that which was DIRECTED by my Father, through his Son... to be written... and that is the Revelation given to John. That one in fact SAYS John was told to write it. None of the others do; thus, they are the same as what I am permitted to share with you all here. Inspired, yes, to some degree, some to a GREAT degree, but not 'scripture', in the sense it was not stated as 'write it down' in order for it to be PRESERVED as 'scripture'.

    Revelation 1:19

    In addition to John, all of the major prophets, the Psalmists, and Moses, were told to write things down... many for another 'time'... the physical events upon Israel and, primarly, the spiritual events. These, then, are the 'scriptures'. Everything else is, as 'MOM brought out, letters, admonitions, histories, chronologies, exhortions, testimonies, etc. I endeavor to write and share that which I receive under 'inspiration', and to state such inspiration by giving the glory to my Father and my Lord. I have been directed, however, and have admonished those that read what I share NOT to preserve it; NOT to make 'books' out of them, for four reasons:

    1. So that no one bastardizes them and teach falsehood;

    2. So that no one follows ME (which is a danger of the flesh; sheep WANT/NEED to be 'led');

    3. So that no one RELIES on what is 'written', but instead;

    4. So that all who 'hear' go directly TO my Lord, for he is our 'leader' and thus the One whom I always attempt to point the sheep to.

    As 'MOM pointed out, there is the danger of one speaking of their own 'initiative'; I have tried to the best of my ability to point out when that is, so that no reproach is brought on my Father, my Lord, or the Spirit. I have, however, like Paul, run ahead on occasion. And, like Paul, I receive 'discipline'... as a son. Thus, I try to be VERY careful.

    Hebrews 12:4-11

    Do elder's kids really get away with more than other kids or does it just seem that way?

    Hypocrites... are, after all... hypocrites.

    Why did Paul, a former persecutor of Christ's brothers and a witness to some of the killings, write so much of the New Testament?

    Many people have been erroneously taught... and thus, erroneously FEEL... that Paul's 'commission' was a 'reward'. While indeed, like ME, it is a PRIVILEGE... it is not a reward; it is payment for a DEBT.

    Acts 9:16

    You see, Paul was RESPONSIBLE for the lives of many of my brothers. He dragged them out of their homes, into court, and delivered them up to be put to death. Think Stephen. Paul had to 'pay' to some degree, FOR those lives. While, of course, he could not pay entirely... my Lord knew his HEART... and so in order for Paul to be a recipient of the 'free gift' of the promised holy spirit, he had to
    'atone' to SOME degree... for his 'bloodguilt'. He could not 'bought' the free gift; there is no money or deed that can buy it. Paul had to SUFFER, because he had caused my brothers to suffer. Thus, Paul was eventually able to say that he was 'free, from the bloodguilt of all men.'

    I have a similar debt, which I am not compelled to go into here; let's just say that among sinners, I am one of the 'foremost'. I do not do my Lord's will because I think I am SPECIAL; I do it because I know I am NOT... and wish to receive and remain in his love. He has forgiven me MUCH... and do I am indebted to him. I have not sinned to the 'degree' of Paul... but sin... is sin. He has 'released' ME... and so, I wish to do his will... and release all others that wish such releasing. That is my 'commission'.

    And why are the writings of so many of the people who actually knew The Man considered apocrypha?

    The word apocrypha means 'hidden'... or 'occult' (which also means 'hidden'). The early 'church' (Catholic), however, in trying to keep the laity in the DARK... determined what the people could know... and what they could not. It appears that those things that EXPOSE them as being false prophets and men of lawlessness, those things that bind THEM, that which teaches LOVE and FORGIVENSS, as well as that which they did not AGREE with... were deemed 'occult' or apopcrypha. Many's the 'religion', from the Catholic to the 'theocratic' (wink, wink), that has changed what is 'good' to bad, and said what is 'bad'... is good.

    THAT's why WE... if we want to know the TRUTH... must go TO the Truth. For he is the ONLY One that can be trusted to TELL us the Truth. We have been warned, yes?... do NOT put your trust in earthling man!

    John 14:6

    Why did Peter, after all his years of personal association with The Man, come off looking like such a chump in his confrontation with Paul?

    Actually, at different times, they both came off looking like chumps. Paul was right in exposing Peter's hypocrisy; however, the 12 were right in correcting Paul's pharisaical expelling of a man who'd slept with his father's wife. The Apostles, having walked WITH my Lord and thus learned directly from HIM... knew that the admonishment was NOT to judge and condemn, but to forgive and release.

    Paul had to learn this and be corrected by the Apostles, and thus in the THIRD letter to the Corinthians, he changed his position, saying, "Anyone that YOU freely forgive, I too forgive." (Paul(?) had actually written 3; 1st and 2nd Corinthians are actually his 2nd and 3rd letters - 1 Corinthians 5:9; 2 Corinthians 13:1 - my 'understanding' is that the first letter was SO harsh, it was destroyed.)

    But Paul and the Apostles did not get along, with the exception of Paul and Barnabas. Mark and Luke were not apostles at all; Mark was Peter's son... and Luke, a physician hired by the Roman ruler Theophilus to write an account of what was occuring between the Jews and the christians, so he would know what was going on and what to do (the territory was under Roman rule, and Paul had appealed to the Romans).

    Paul actually started his 'commission' about three years after the death of my Lord in the flesh. When he met the apostles, there was no love lost between them. Barnabas, however, was commissioned to work with Paul (NOT through the apostles, but through certain prophets in Antioch - Barnabas had been sent by the spirit to Tarsus to find Paul and take him back to Antioch), and he obeyed. They, too, had disagreements.

    It was about three years between the time Paul started, and the time he went up to Jerusalem with Barnabas over the circumcision 'issue'. It was then that he met the apostles. Peter had already tried to tell the older men that circumcision wasn't required, and they stopped teaching it for a minute, but when Paul and Barnabas arrived back in Antioch, after having gone on a three year journey, they found that the requirement was again being taught.

    Paul and Barnabas spoke before the assembly and told them that there were people of nations ALL over who wanted to accept Christ as their Lord, and that they had received no instruction from the Spirit to tell such people to become circumcised. Yet, the people loved God and Christ. So, James, the brother of my Lord took the matter under consideration and it was JAMES and NOT the 'governing body' who made the decision on that matter, as well as blood, etc. The others, including the ENTIRE congregation (which meant men who were NOT among the 'older men') agreed with it and put it in writing to be sent out.

    After that, it was about 14 years before Paul and the apostles were together again. The apostles went on to preach throughout Judea and Samaria, including Babylon. Paul, however, was an apostle to the NATIONS, and thus went outside that area to preach. And it is because of Paul's message to the NATIONS... that the Bible canon as we know it is what it is. For it was the NATIONS that put together the Bible, along with a few letters, the gospels and the Revelation. One of the most COMPREHENSIVE books of the Bible canon, however, is the letter to the Hebrews. It was not written by Paul, but by either Peter or John. I have heard both from my Lord so I am not sure which... or if it was actually both. But it was NOT Paul.

    Does poppy grow on the Isle of Patmos?

    I don't know; does it? It grows quite well here in sunny California. 'MOM's got 'em in her yard (you all should SEE her yard; the woman's a horticultural GENIUS).

    Anyway, I will be going now, with my long-winded self. I hope your questions are answered.

    Peace to you!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    That was thought provoking (good job I'm not a jw anymore!)

    The hypothetical question I'm left with is:

    WHAT IF GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE BUT NO ANGELS OR JESUS. HOW WOULD ADAMS SIN BE PAID FOR WITHOUT A RANSOM.

    (and I realise for the first time that I cannot see logic in Jesus' sacrifice at all)

    What Goes Up Must Come Down

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest ballistic... may you have peace!

    With reference to the question of the 'logic' in my Lord's sacrifice, may I ask you to check your email? Thank you, and...

    Peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • teejay
    teejay

    Hello, good people. A confession...

    These questions I posted are questions I "use to wonder about." I don't wonder anymore. I've found the answers to all of them... well, except the one about poppy growing on Patmos... but that was a jab at John for writing what he wrote. The guy must've been on something...

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    JUSTAMOM,

    You said,

    *Now lets see if they wouuld allow themselves to be housed during a cos visit by individuals that would be viewed down upon. Like sinners, harlots and tax collectors. Jesus did.
    Lets see if they would truly be happy with fish and bread. (simple poor budget meal by a widow)

    Never may that happen, though the one time I ate a meal with a traveling rep was at a lowly sister's house. It was the only time in my life I ate quiche. No joke. Pretty good stuff... always meant to have it again, but haven't gotten around to it, yet.

    *Ever got tired of standing at the end of a Sunday convention PRAYER because he was so long-winded.....???

    uh, they give long prayers? I never noticed...

    [Paul's] letters were NOT written under inspiration.

    Wow. I didn't know that. So when he said "all scripture is inspired of god..."

    Actually, that leads to another question I always had. Since so many books and letters are considered apocrypha and not approved for inclusion in the "real" bible founded by Constantine, which books of the current lineup of bible books REALLY WERE inspired. I'm glad you've narrowed it down for me.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Shelby,

    The only 'inspired' writing, that is, 'scripture'... is that which was DIRECTED by my Father, through his Son... to be written... and that is the Revelation given to John. That one in fact SAYS John was told to write it.

    So we have John's word that the Revelation was inspired. Okay. Further, you helped 'answer' a question I asked (your?) MOM when you said, "In addition to John, all of the major prophets, the Psalmists, and Moses, were told to write things down... these, then, are the 'scriptures'. Everything else [isn't]

    Cool.

    Anyway, I will be going now, with my long-winded self. I hope your questions are answered.

    You? "Long-winded"? Now why would you go and say a fool thing like that, Shelby?

    peace,
    tj

  • JUSTAMOM
    JUSTAMOM

    Thanks for your response and I hope I didn't confuse you much.
    Yes 2Timothy 3:16 does say, "ALL SCRIPTURE" is inspired of God and BENEFIAL for 'teaching, reproving. setting this straight, etc etc."

    It does NOT say, however, that LIFE is found in SCRIPTURE with these verses. What is written (scripture and letters) LEADS us to the one that gives life. That is why our lord said what he did at JOHN 5:39,40. You know he knew what man and religion down the line was going to do with "the bible."
    Confuse poor innocent sheep.

    Theses verses in JOHN also shows us that ANYONE regardless of our background, education or place on this earth can come to HIM.
    If one can't read and study the bible...NO RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD???
    Of course NOT!!!

    As far as what is scripture LUKE 24:44-46 tells. At the time Luke was written Revelation wasn't written yet by John, but that was to come shortly.

    So you have MOSES, ALL THE PROPHETS (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, (big books) Micah, Amos (small books) etc...., Psalms, and Revelation.

    They truly are helpful as Prophecy unfolds, reminders we need from time to time, to be able to teach ones that NEED TO SEE what is written, to help set matters straight, and to able to 'test out what IS inspired.'

    And yes, there are books that NEVER made it to the bible cannon that were written under 'inspiration.' We can also thank religion for that. They have a lot to hide. Ever see Stigmata??? Excellent message for those that like to hide and deceive.

    Hope this helps
    JUSTAMOM (Kim)

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