Spinning wheel

by PoppyR 4 Replies latest jw friends

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  PoppyR

  So.. I told my family something at least, ie that I was taking a break, my older brother who is an elder, emailed me and said I was not seeing things clearly because I was not recieving the spirit and in the middle of the organisation. I understood what he meant, but replied by saying I could flip that around and say finally I was out of the spinning wheel I could see things without the blurs! I mentioned to my husband about 607, in turn, and I think stupidly he asked an elder and another pioneer brother if they could explain it to him, the elder (who is one I'm very fond of) made such a hash of it and ended up saying it was one of those things we would need to wait until the new system for to ask those that were around!!! After he went, myhusband and I laughed a LOT because this poor brother had just tied himself up in knots. The pioneer brother just paraded all the information I had already found saying Ptolemy could not be trusted etc etc, and when I replied with the quote from the insight book which says they date 539 from ptolemys cannon... he started to get more agressive about apostate thinking, so I dropped it. Strangely I think my husband knows that 607 is wrong, but he says without the 'truth' where will he go.. he would rather bury his head in the sand and pretend. but most people genuinely cannot see, and I know that would have been me a year or two ago, how frustrating!!

  On the upside.. first day today I just missed Sunday meeting without any intention of going.. BLISS! I am thinking about the rest of my life and all those lazy Sundays I intend to have!!

  poppy x
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  Ellie

  Good for you Poppy!

  Maybe a little off topic but lazy Sundays are great, I remember back to my childhood, my mum being so stressed of a Sunday morning, trying to get me and my little brother ready for the meeting, we always ended up getting screamed at and hit, then after the meeting she'd go to bed, my dad too, leaving us alone to make a huge mess and then get hit for it, just because she was tired after the meeting.

  These days Sundays are ace and to be looked forward to.
• 

  blondie

  the elder (who is one I'm very fond of) made such a hash of it and ended up saying it was one of those things we would need to wait until the new system for to ask those that were around!!!

  The pioneer brother just paraded all the information I had already found saying Ptolemy could not be trusted etc etc, and when I replied with the quote from the insight book which says they date 539 from ptolemys cannon

  It just shows that the "mature, experienced" JW isn't equipped to answer questions about 607, what above the "average" JW?

  ***

  w03 5/15 p. 4 Noah’s Log—Does It Have Meaning for Us? ***

  One pivotal date is 539 B.C.E., the year when Persian King Cyrus overthrew Babylon. Secular sources for the time of his reign include Babylonian tablets and documents of Diodorus, Africanus, Eusebius, and Ptolemy. Because of a decree issued by Cyrus, a Jewish remnant left Babylon and arrived in their homeland in 537 B.C.E. That marked the end of Judah’s 70-year desolation, which according to the Biblical record had begun in 607 B.C.E.

  ***

  it-1 p. 454 Chronology ***

  The date of 539 B.C.E. for the fall of Babylon can be arrived at not only by Ptolemy’s canon but by other sources as well. The historian Diodorus, as well as Africanus and Eusebius, shows that Cyrus’ first year as king of Persia corresponded to Olympiad 55, year 1 (560/559 B.C.E.), while Cyrus’ last year is placed at Olympiad 62, year 2 (531/530 B.C.E.). Cuneiform tablets give Cyrus a rule of nine years over Babylon, which would therefore substantiate the year 539 as the date of his conquest of Babylon.—Handbook of Biblical Chronology, by Jack Finegan, 1964, pp. 112, 168-170; Babylonian Chronology, 626 B.C.–A.D. 75, p. 14; see comments above under "Babylonian Chronology," also PERSIA, PERSIANS.

  In the olden days, 539 BCE was called an "absolute date" not a "pivotal date."

  *** w68 5/1 p. 268 Understanding Time a Help to True Worshipers ***

  To calculate long periods of time, certain dates called "absolute dates" are very valuable. These are dates that have been proved reliable by secular history, actual dates of events that are also recorded in the Bible. Starting from one of these specific dates we can, by using the reliable internal chronology of the Bible itself, ascertain when many other Bible events occurred. For calculating Hebrew Scripture dates, the absolute date of October 5 to 6 in the year 539 B.C.E. is essential. This was the year that the Medes and Persians overthrew Babylon and it was definitely established in secular history when a record was found of King Nabonidus, the father and coregent of King Belshazzar. This remarkable clay document established that Babylon fell on October 5 to 6, in the year 539 B.C.E. according to the Gregorian calendar. From this date all the other dates in the Hebrew Scriptures can be calculated.

  *** w68 5/1 p. 269 Understanding Time a Help to True Worshipers ***

  For calculating the dates for the various events of Jesus’ earthly ministry, the absolute date of August 19, in the year 14 of the Common Era, is vital.

  ***

  w68 5/1 p. 271 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***

  Hence, outside the Bible’s timetable, most dates set by historians are unreliable. Only a few "assured," or absolute, dates, such as 539 B.C.E., can be accepted as certain. Christians, confident in Jehovah’s Word, know that the internal evidence of the Bible is the safest guide in these matters. This helps us to determine with great accuracy where we stand in the stream of time, particularly in regard to the seventh period of time, or "day," mentioned in Genesis.—Gen. 2:2, 3.

  ***

  w68 8/15 p. 490 The Book of Truthful Historical Dates ***

  So too in determining where mankind is on the pathway of time, it will not solve the problem simply to translate ancient calendars into present-day systems. One must first measure back in time across the gulf that separates the present from the ancient Biblical record of the past, to a stationary point in history, to a fixed date of the past, to an absolute date, if you please. Such a date must be one where sacred and secular historical events coincide and are linked in perfect agreement with current methods of measuring time distances.
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  fullofdoubtnow

  Hi Poppy,

  I too am having a lazy Sunday, no more schedule to ahere to, just do what I want when I want. I haven't been out for long, but I really look forward to sundays now instead of dreading them.

  Good luck with your progress away from the lie

  Linda xx
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  PoppyR

  Funny thing a quote.. that should have been so obvious but wasn't, struck me from Carl Jonsons book about the Gentile times where he says there are actually NO dates in the bible, well,, not with any kind of dating system we are familiar with anyway, we can only work them out from secular sources, so for the WT to say we can accept one date because it's reliable, but reject another.. now is so clearly and blatantly a lie. The funny thing is I can accept all the 'mistakes' that have been made over the years, it's the fact that now I know without any doubt the GB know they were wrong about all this and cannot let the lie go without crumbling the organisation so they just quickly cut off those that talk about it.

  Thought the book was brilliant, well worth buying, I've scanned through most chapters, but loved the way he put every single person he quoted from in the details at the bottom, and especially where he had contacted scholars the WT have used to support their views who were horrified to find their words misinterpreted. I'm planning on reading it again slowly, as I am the type of person who needs to make sure of the more important things. In my own mind now when people come back at me with WT quotes I have the answers all ready.

  Thing that strikes me about people on this board and the two books I have so far read (crisis of conscience and Gentile times) are that these people were deeply entrenched and totally believed what they were taught, they were not looking to criticise, and genuinely believed the organisation would realise their mistake and correct it. It proves to me that mostly it's only independent thinkers who are going to get away from the JWs. Guess I've always been one of those! When I had my nose pierced some years ago I just needed to show people an outward sign that I was not a sheep.. incidentally my husband and I always associate sheep with a person who will blindly follow others with no thoughts in their head.. so I dont consider it a bad thing to be a goat. Funnily enough my mother just never commented, didn't say she hated it, which she obviously did, I think she just hoped I'd grow out of it..lol. Some years later a sister at a convention stopped me and commented I'd lost weight, I pointed at my nose stud and said it was acupuncture.. it was supposed to be a joke, but she said REALLY... and wanted to know more.. The body of elders obviously discussed it and one was dispatched to tell me it was a bad example to young sisters in the congregation and I would not be allowed priveleges of service.. ie pioneering, I was understandably gutted about that.

  Poppy xx (still enjoying my lazy sunday!!)