How long do you think it will or do you even think that speciation will occur between wild dogs(wolves, dingos, african wild dogs) and domestic dogs? Assuming that they are left seperate and continue in thier enviroment I think that domestic dogs will devolve much like humans are now, and I would guess that the wild breeds will become a seperate species in the next few thousand years. Any thoughts?
For evolutionists-Wild vs. Domestic dogs
by gringojj 7 Replies latest jw friends
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IronGland
I think that domestic dogs will devolve much like humans are now
"Devolve": There's no such thing. Clarify.
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gringojj
Survival of the fittest is no longer the rule for humans. The strongest of the strong still prosper, but the weakest of the weak still reproduce. In that respect I mean we devolve, but I guess its still evolution just it doesnt go the same as survival of the fittest.
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TD
I'm not positive what you mean so please forgive if this is wide of the point.
All domestic dogs have descended from the wolf and genetically, they can for the most part still freely interbreed. (One of my three dogs is a "hybrid" 3/4 Husky: 1/4 Wolf)
Although technically all domestic dogs are classified as Canis familiarias, the different breeds are distinct enough that they would be classified as separate species if they had been found in the wild. They're considered "breeds" rather than species because this diversity is entirely the product of the manipulation of man.
If man suddendly disappeared, the same selective pressure that produced wild members of the dog family in the first place would take over. This is something that is very difficult to improve upon. A great many dog breeds (e.g. Those that exist purely for companionship) would die out almost overnight. Others might last a little longer, but it's doubtful if any dog breed could compete with his wild cousins.
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tetrapod.sapien
i get what you mean gringo about "devolve", and i agree, although it's true about it not being the right word.
canis lupus vs. canis lupus familiaris?
to some zoologists, canis lupus familiaris is already a "sub species" (like homo sapiens and homo sapiens sapiens). and if i recall correctly, not ALL wolves can interbreed with ALL domestic dogs? i could be wrong, but i seem to remember that. and for many people, that reproductive ability is the line of speciation.
but as far as i can tell, since domestic dogs are under so few pressures, as humans are, it would take a major extinction or environmental catastrophy to alter them much. a place where new mutations actually meant something in relation to the niches available.
if that doesn't happen, then i would watch for wolves evolving interesting mutations over the next million years, not dogs.
that said, dogs do evolve too, of course. it's just that the selection pressures are different. the selection pressures are excerted by humans, and are rarely chosen for the ability to survive in the wild. if there was a major catastrophy that rendered humans extinct and dogs okay, somehow i don't think domestic dogs would win out over wolves at all, lol.
TS
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Quentin
Interesting...it's my understanding when dogs go feral they run in packs...would not a pack of breeding feral dogs extend the chance of their success in surviving and adapting to the wild? Don't know what you would have after several generations, but seems they would be far removed from the domestic varity.
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TD
..would not a pack of breeding feral dogs extend the chance of their success in surviving and adapting to the wild? Don't know what you would have after several generations, but seems they would be far removed from the domestic varity.
I'm always fascinated by these questions. If they did survive. I would suspect that the coloration and body build would revert to what works best in the wild. (I'm not sure if it would happen here where I live though. The coyotes eat domestic dogs like candy )
To use other species as examples: The Budgerigar's (Melopisittacus undulatus --"Parakeet") natural coloring is light green/yellow head. They had been bred in captivity for generations before other (mutated) colors were expressed (e.g. Pure yellow in 1870, Sky blue in 1878, Dark blue in 1915, Olive in 1916, etc. etc.) These mutations don't take hold in the wild because the light green/yellow head combination apparently works best.
Similar situation with the gold fish. The original forbearer, the gibel carp Carassius auratus was pure silver. The many color and other morphological variations were expressed through captive breeding. (e.g. Gold color first recored during Chun dynasty, White and Red/White variations during Nan Song dynasty, Red Caps 1590, Oranda bodied 1893, "Bubble eyes" 1898, etc.) Most, if not all of these variations would be a liability in the wild.
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Quentin
If they did survive.
That would be the linchpin...I believe that any species, dominant or sub, has as much a chance of survival as the next...but then again there are always coyotes and such to block a successful continuation...thanks for the info...