process of deprogramming

nicbic

my first post - hi!

i have a read a lot of posts though on here.

i was wondering if anyone could tell me (i'm a non jw) if there are any procedures that can help to plant seeds of doubt in my close jw friend's mind - she has been one since birth, was inactive for a time and went back in full force. now - she says she is unhappy but i think she has just gone back in due to family ties, i think with some support she could change her mind. i know these things take time and i wouldn't want to intervene usually but i really think she is keeping me as a friend even though i am not a jw because of these latent doubts. i have never read the bible so i don't think i'll be able to follow complicated scriptural arguments initially. but i mean more passing statements or behaviours that may penetrate gradually. i am reading one of the things she gave me to prove i am an understanding friend so i was wondering if it could be a start in bringing up something not too heavy from there. advice welcomed.

thank you

jstalin

Hi,

First, welcome.

Second, I'm in the same boat as you. I'm working on a friend was grew up as a JW to help him see the light. It's a long, slow, tough process. Read a couple of books:

Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz

Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan

Those will get you started. The important thing to do is to lay off being a challenger of the doctrine. Be there as a friend, discuss the issues if asked, and be gentle about it. Which item did she give you to read? Perhaps we can help with pointing out some errors in that particular document that you can bring up as "questions" after you've read it.

nicbic

hi jstalin

i will take it slowly, it would be well worth the wait if i could get to see her live an ordinary life. i can tell she isn't happy.

do you have any other tips, like should i steer clear of certain topics so she doesn't think i'm trying to oppose her view?

jstalin

Try and steer clear of doctrinal issues, such as trinity, Christmas, blood, etc. The more you learn about the religion, the more you can use issues in an off-hand way to make her think. For instance, my JW friend doesn't have any idea I know so much about his religion, so I make off-hand comments about things like higher education, evolution, etc, without any reference to religion, to plant a small seed. The goal is to get your friend to think about subjects. They are taught to simply repeat what they are told and not think about issues.

However, it sounds like your friend might already be in questioning mode. It's possible that she's staying in just because it keeps the family happy. You might try talking about what she wants to do with her future, if she's happy with how things are going, etc. Those issues might help her talk about what she's going through.

How familiar with JWs are you?

GetBusyLiving

Hi Nic ! Welcome.

You're a good guy for trying to help your friend out of the cult. Be very careful though. You have to be very subtle and somewhat smooth with JW's because they are trained to think that anyone criticizing the organization is being used by Satan (no joke).

The biggest crux point of the cult is the doctrine of "the faithful and discreet slave" and is easily refuteable but a HUGE emotional hinge point for dubs, especially born-in's. Do some research in this site's "best of" section involving the Dubs false dating of the fall of Jerusalem and the prophecies the leaders have devised from it. I know to you it probably seems incredibly stupid but to J-dubs this crazy stuff is embedded in their brains, and cult deprogrammers need to really know their stuff to help them out.

Good luck, and try to have some fun with it too!

GBL

garybuss

Welcome nicbic A Jehovah's Witness doesn't need any seeds of doubt *planted*. Their life is mostly made up of ignoring the cosmos of doubt every Witness is aware of. The trick is helping them to act on the garden of doubt already growing. In my experience a Witness person who likes being a Witness and is happy being a Witness will most likely stay being a Witness in spite of mountains of disconfirmations. The huge recent past failures such as the failure of Armageddon in 1975 and the failure of the generation of 1914 in 1995 prove the Witness people can ignore HUGE disconfirmations and stay with the group.
A person like me who really doesn't like being a Witness, will quit ignoring obvious problems and quit associating on their own.
To be in a position to help an active Jehovah's Witness, one must keep rapport. To keep rapport with a believing Witness one must remember to NEVER challenge the Society in any way OR remind the Witness of any of the disconfirmations they are trying to ignore. That means walking on egg shells around active Witnesses.
Personally, if a person is interested in denying reality and going against reason by being a Witness, I am not very interested in them. My life is kinda over full of people I am interested in, people I like, people who show me they like me. I'm gonna spend my time and resources on them.

cyber-sista

Personally, if a person is interested in denying reality and going against reason by being a Witness, I am not very interested in them. My life is kinda over full of people I am interested in, people I like, people who show me they like me. I'm gonna spend my time and resources on them.

Thanks Gary for the direct perspective. I have been thinking of writing my JW sister this morning, but I don't know what to say to her anymore. We have not communicated for several months--she doesn't want to talk with me because I am not an active JW anymore. I guess I should face the reality that as long as she chooses to have the WT as a mediator between us it is impossible for us to have a relationship. Sad, but true. The good news is there are lots of other people around who want to be my friends and family. Time to let go...

cybs

telltruth

hi and welcome nicbic. i am in the same position.(non-jw, never was, friend who's a born-in beginning to question) as most people here will tell you it can be a very slow, frustrating and at times painful process. the books that you were recommended are excellent reads, however the process has an individual jw at it's core. the hardest part for me has been trying to keep my emotions from consuming me. i have never been involved with a process such as this and to watch, hear and know the damage that has been caused by the wts to my friend and her family has been and is one of the most difficult challenges i have faced. the more time you spend talking of 'ordinary' things(non jw) the more time you will have to know the real person underneath all the wts doctrine. this real person as an idividual is the only person who can make the decision to leave the wts and live life the way it was meant to be lived....free...........telltruth.

fullofdoubtnow

Hi nicbic,

I have recently left the jws, and can thank a really good friend who posts on this board for helpling me, but he didn't do it by anything he said, more by what he did. The thing is, jws believe that there is no life, no true happiness, outside their org, and any who leave, as my friend did, are destined to lead a miserable, unfulfilled existence until they are destroyed at Armageddon. However, in the case of my friend, I could see that this was not so. I know him well enough to realise that he is happier away from the wt than he ever was in it, and certainly far happier than I was while I was still in. He has attained a level of contentment that I wouldn't have believed possible for anyone who had left the jws, and I just couldn't understand how, but now I have left I am beginning to see it.

In the case of your friend, please don't try to reason with her on the choice she has made, you may only succeed in pushing her closer to the jws. Show her by your own example that a happy life is possible outside the wt.

I hope this helps

love

Linda

nicbic

thank you all - i have read and understood. i'll try very hard to be there and show my life is fulfilled and happy - fullofdoubtnow - that was very good to hear, i never looked at it like that.

at the minute she is single, i was hoping i could influence her before she met a man. turns out some witness has shown her some interest and she is very attracted to him. i may be fearing the worst but i think that if she marries a witness she'll never question and grow. i guess as long as she's happy.....

process of deprogramming

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