Hi! I'm new :) I was wondering if anyone here would have anything from the late 1980s to about mid 90s that says basically that a Christian parent should use corporal punishment. The quotes site didn't have much and I don't have many volumes from that time period. I was raised JW and my father was quite punitive. I've discussed with my mother how it was actually *not* Christian of him to parent the way he did, yet she keeps telling me to quit blaming religion for it (rolling my eyes). So I'm looking for info to back me up here that JWs DO advocate it. Thanks FaeriePrincess
Help finding articles re discipline
by FaeriePrincess 6 Replies latest watchtower bible
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nicolaou
Welcome to the forum FaeriePrincess, hope the following quotes (emphasis added) help;
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w73 9/15 p. 557 What Kind of Training Do Children Need? ***21
God is man’s Creator. There is no higher authority. His Word is very clear on the matter. It says: "Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol [the grave] itself." (Prov. 23:13, 14) The life of the child is at stake. If he is allowed to pursue a wrong course, it will lead to his own unhappiness and eventual death outside God’s favor. Thus the Bible says: "The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline." (Prov. 13:24) It shows real love on the part of a parent to do whatever he can to correct his child, including spanking him. This is God’s way. "For whom Jehovah loves," the scripture says, "he disciplines; in fact, he scourges [whips or lashes] every one whom he receives as a son.
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w54 1/15 p. 54 Disciplining Children for Life ***Sometimes, though parents give the proper instruction and set the proper example, children refuse to obey. That brings us to discipline, and forces a facing of that hotly controversial question: to spank or not to spank.
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Many child psychologists put a "hands off" sign on children, as did one who said: "Do you mothers realize that every time you spank your child you show that you are hating your child?" Jehovah says: "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him." A spanking may be a lifesaver to a child, for Jehovah says: "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. If you beat him with the rod you will save his life from Sheol." Again, "Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts." It is Jehovah who can peer into the innermost parts of men and children, and at one time, typical of our day, he did this and saw: "The inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up." The remedy? "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him."***
g79 5/8 p. 27 Should Children Be Spanked? ***But does loving discipline include a parent’s use of spanking? According to God’s Word, it definitely can, when the spanking is an expression of and in a manner consistent with love. Consider these verses from the inspired book of Proverbs:
"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (22:15) "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (23:13, 14) "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (13:24)—New International Version.
While such references to the "rod" could cover various forms of discipline from parents, physical chastisement is certainly included. Whether they do it with the hand, a wooden ruler or some other type of appropriate "rod," parents are authorized by God to use spanking in lovingly disciplining their children.
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There's volumes of this crap, how much do you want?
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blondie
*** g79 5/8 pp. 27-28 Should Children Be Spanked? ***
The
Bible’s ViewShould
Children Be Spanked?YOU may have been present when unruly children were noisily disturbing all those nearby. "If they were mine," you might have thought, "I’d warm their bottoms good." On the other hand, perhaps you saw a parent angrily beat a tired or sick child whose crying sparked the parental explosion. You may have felt that parents should not be allowed to spank, for it often leads to brutality.
There is no denying the fact that deciding how to discipline is one of parenthood’s most difficult decisions. Should spanking be used? Or is it simply another aspect of home violence? (See pages 3 to 19.)
Many persons, including child specialists and psychologists, are opposed to parents spanking children. In Science News (March 4, 1978) Dr. R. S. Welsh wrote: "The acceptance of corporal punishment in both the home and school should no longer occur." Some claim that spanking teaches bad lessons—that the stronger can rule by force and that angry violence is suitable conduct.
However, other authorities think differently. Quoting Soine Torma, director of the Northwestern Child Guidance Clinic, a newspaper stated: "‘There has to be discipline, there has to be order.’ This extends to spanking he said, so long as ‘you spank for the misbehavior.’" And, in Dare to Discipline, Dr. James Dobson writes:
"It is possible for parents to create hostility and aggressiveness in their children by behaving violently themselves. . . . However, when the child has lowered his head and clenched his fist, he is daring the parent to take him on. If the parent responds appropriately (on the backside) he has taught the child a valuable lesson that is consistent with nature’s method of instruction."
Actually, God’s Word is the best source of advice on child discipline, for Jehovah God both originated the human family and has observed in billions of cases what brings success or failure.
Jehovah, a God of love, counsels parents: "Do not be irritating your children, but go on bringing them up in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah." (Eph. 6:4) Discipline—instruction or training that molds—can be an expression of love. We read: "‘My son, . . . whom Jehovah loves he disciplines.’ . . . True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit." That is so in the family, too.—Heb. 12:4-11.
But does loving discipline include a parent’s use of spanking? According to God’s Word, it definitely can, when the spanking is an expression of and in a manner consistent with love. Consider these verses from the inspired book of Proverbs:
"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (22:15) "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (23:13, 14) "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (13:24)—New International Version.
While such references to the "rod" could cover various forms of discipline from parents, physical chastisement is certainly included. Whether they do it with the hand, a wooden ruler or some other type of appropriate "rod," parents are authorized by God to use spanking in lovingly disciplining their children.
The Bible, however, helps parents to avoid going to excesses by offering strong counsel against giving way to violent anger. (Prov. 16:32; 25:28; Col. 3:8) If a parent, ignoring this counsel about controlling anger, fiercely hit a child in an outburst of fury, that would be contrary to what God’s Word says about discipline being an expression of love. The Bible in no way endorses angry whippings or severe beatings that bruise and can even cripple a young child. That is child abuse, not loving discipline.
A wise parent recognizes that there are various ways to correct or punish a child. Sometimes just a firm word will do. In other cases a disobedient child may be briefly isolated. When a child spills or breaks something through childish carelessness or irresponsibility, often it is most effective to make the child clean it up or work to replace it, if feasible. Of course, flexibility is important, adapting the discipline to the situation and the child; what works with one may not work with another.
Yet, even as the Bible shows, spanking does have value as an occasional form of discipline, especially for young children. As they go along, most children will, time and again, challenge their parents’ authority, testing to see if they "really mean business" and deserve respect. Even nice children may say, "You shut up!" or "No, I won’t do it!" One doctor explained that it is as if the child knows where ‘a line has been drawn on the ground’ and yet crosses it to see what the parent will do. Can the child get away with it? Who is in control?
Particularly with very young children, such a challenge is not necessarily a time for an abundance of words. A spanking may be in order. No, not beating a child into submission, but a firm spanking sufficient to underscore who has authority.
As any tears subside, the parent can lovingly take the child into his or her arms. With quiet words, or just a warm embrace, the parent can say: "I love you too much for you to grow up without recognizing authority and the need for respect." These are also choice moments to offer guidance that will touch the heart. After one father read in Science News the previously quoted view about avoiding spanking, he wrote to the magazine:
‘When my children were outright disobedient, my wife and I pointed out the reason for the violated rule and the child acknowledged the need for the penalty. Once, after the agreed-on number of smart spanks had been delivered with the paddle, my son (about 6) crept into my lap, hugged and kissed me and said, "Daddy, I guess I’ve learned my lesson."’
All around us we see the sad consequences of excessive and misplaced permissiveness. So we should be able to appreciate the truthfulness of the Bible’s statement that "he who loves [his child] is careful to discipline him." (Prov. 13:24, NIV) It is truly loving for parents, in a child’s early years, to commence helping the youngster to recognize authority and to realize that there must be reasonable limits to freedom. The brief pain of firm but not harsh spankings when a young child needs such is certainly better than the grief that comes if, in teen-age or later years, he has not learned those lessons.
It takes real effort for parents to spank wisely—to avoid letting misplaced affection cause them to refrain from spanking, and yet to control themselves so that they do not let spankings lead to brutality or child abuse. But the counsel from our Creator, and the good effects forthcoming, prove that this effort is worth while. As Today’s English Version renders Proverbs 23:13, 14: "Don’t hesitate to discipline a child. A good spanking won’t kill him. As a matter of fact, it may save his life."
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w78 5/1 p. 32 Questions from Readers ***Questions
from Readers•
What is the point of the proverb that says: "The ridiculer you should strike, that the inexperienced one may become shrewd; and there should be a reproving of the understanding one, that he may discern knowledge"?This proverb is found at Proverbs 19:25, and it calls our attention to two different methods of instruction. Parents can be aware of both.
As the proverb first points out, for an inexperienced or simple person to learn the need to avoid wrongdoing, he might have to see punishment come to a ridiculing hardened wrongdoer. The forceful action serves to teach the inexperienced one. For him, it will likely be a strong deterrent. The understanding one, however, does not need such a powerful warning lesson. Often it is enough for him to hear words of reproof; he quickly accepts the counsel and applies it.
Many parents have seen the truthfulness of these words, and others may yet do so and benefit through application of this proverb. In order to learn to avoid a wrong course, sometimes a child needs to be faced with strong discipline, such as a spanking (either seeing it come to another, or experiencing it personally). Though at first such discipline might seem unpleasant both to the child and to the parents, the outcome can prove that it is worth while. (Heb. 12:11) The child can be brought to the condition described at the end of Proverbs 19:25.
In many cases where a child consistently receives firm, molding correction from parents, he advances to the point where he is able to learn from parental words of reproof or advice. What a fine lesson for us to learn early in life!
*** hp (Happiness book) chap. 9 pp. 94-95 Youths—How Can YOU Be Happy? ***22 Few parents with young children would be surprised to read: "Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy [or, girl]; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him." (Proverbs 22:15) But what does that mean? Some parents are so severe that they physically harm their children with beatings. Others claim that children should be allowed to develop on their own. Neither extreme is correct.
23 We read earlier that parents are to ‘raise their children with Christian discipline and instruction.’ (Ephesians 6:4, Good News Bible) Brutality is not Christian discipline. (Proverbs 16:32; 25:28) Loving discipline may be expressed with a firm word. That is particularly so if parents make clear the reason for their rule and if they consistently stand behind what they say. When foolishness in a youth’s heart still moves him or her to disobey—and that often occurs—some form of punishment will impress the idea. Taking away a privilege may work. God’s Word says, though, that in some cases physical chastisement—spanking, given without wrath—may be needed.—Proverbs 23:13, 14; 13:24.
24 As small children grow older, the way of dealing with them will change. Whereas a spanking may have worked best with a young boy, as he gets older other methods may be better and more appropriate. Similarly, parents should gradually permit a son or a daughter more freedom of action and responsibility.—1 Corinthians 13:11.
25 Love for your children is vital in order to help them with their problems. It should be the motive behind discipline, and it makes correction easier to take. Failure to provide guidance and discipline for one’s children is like denying one’s parenthood of them. This is explained at Hebrews 12:5-11, which points out that Jehovah himself gives discipline out of love.
*** w86 8/15 p. 17 Guard Against Misusing Power ***Children can cause their parents to act against their own better judgment because of the affection their parents have for them. A child, knowing that he deserves to be spanked, may cry so pitifully that his mother just cannot bring herself to administer the deserved spanking. A successful woman financier boasts of her ability to manipulate customers, saying: "Women are born with it. You should see my daughter manipulate her father."
*** w82 7/15 p. 9 How to Enjoy a Happy Family Life ***Part of the instruction should take the form of correction. "Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy," the Bible explains, but "the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him." The giving of discipline, even if it includes a spanking, is an evidence of parental love, as the Bible says: "The one loving [his son] is he that does look for him with discipline."—Proverbs 22:15; 13:24; 23:13, 14; Ephesians 6:4.
*** w79 5/1 p. 30 Insight on the News ***Should Children Be Spanked?• In the past, children were usually spanked when that became necessary. True, the practice has been abused by incompetent parents. One result of this is that most modern child psychologists are against spanking. While some now question this view, the majority opinion is still as New York columnist Brenda Woods writes: "It’s obvious that none of the experts feels spanking is a good idea, but they no longer want you to feel quite so bad about doing it occasionally."
However, the enormous increase in juvenile delinquency is one evidence that the ‘no spanking’ view has not helped matters. Who, then, knows best what the balanced view is? Surely it is God, who created humankind. His inspired Word states: "Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him." (Prov. 22:15) The Bible is clear that discipline includes good teaching and example, but does it exclude spanking? No, for Proverbs 23:13 says: "Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod [or hand], he will not die."—See also Proverbs 13:24.
Such discipline should not be administered in anger and hate, but out of loving concern, with appropriate explanations to children old enough to understand. Parents who have such a balanced, godly view find that as the discipline takes effect, it becomes less and less necessary to spank.
*** Live Forever book chap. 29 p. 245 Making a Success of Family Life ***Recognizing this, the Bible urges: "You, fathers, . . . go on bringing [your children] up in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah." The giving of discipline, even if it may include a spanking or a taking away of privileges, is an evidence that parents love their children. The Bible says: "The one loving [his son] is he that does look for him with discipline."—Ephesians 6:4; Proverbs 13:24; 23:13, 14.
*** Young People chap. 5 p. 48 How Can I Deal With My Parent’s Remarriage? ***Interviewer: How did you avoid resenting your stepparent’s discipline?Lynch: My mother and stepfather always stood together on discipline. When something happened, they both came to a decision to do it, so when I got a spanking, I knew it was from both.*** Happiness chap. 9 pp. 94-95 Youths—How Can YOU Be Happy? ***When foolishness in a youth’s heart still moves him or her to disobey—and that often occurs—some form of punishment will impress the idea. Taking away a privilege may work. God’s Word says, though, that in some cases physical chastisement—spanking, given without wrath—may be needed.—Proverbs 23:13, 14; 13:24.
24 As small children grow older, the way of dealing with them will change. Whereas a spanking may have worked best with a young boy, as he gets older other methods may be better and more appropriate. Similarly, parents should gradually permit a son or a daughter more freedom of action and responsibility.—1 Corinthians 13:11.
*** Family Life chap. 10 p. 132 The Value of Disciplining in Love ***THE ROD OF DISCIPLINE5 A spanking may be a lifesaver to a child, for God’s Word says: "Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol [the grave] itself." Again, "Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him." (Proverbs 23:13, 14; 22:15) If parents hold their children’s life interests dear to them, they will not weakly or carelessly let disciplinary action slip from their hands. Love will motivate them to take action, wisely and fairly, when it is needed.
*** fl chap. 10 pp. 142-143 The Value of Disciplining in Love ***DIFFERENT WAYS TO DISCIPLINE26 "A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times." (Proverbs 17:10) Different children may need to be disciplined differently. The temperament and disposition of the individual child must be considered. One child may be very sensitive, and physical punishment, such as spanking, may not always be necessary. With another, spanking may be ineffective. Or a child may be like the servant described at Proverbs 29:19, one who "will not let himself be corrected by mere words, for he understands but he is paying no heed." In such a case the child would need corporal punishment.
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blondie
Many European countries now have laws against spanking/corporal punishment of children. The WTS was forced to edit its publications of any such mentions from about 1980 onward. In general, the WTS has toned it down officially on spanking but unofficially...
Blondie
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serendipity
There was a one page WT article in the 90's that stated spanking should be a last resort and parents shouldn't use an instrument to spank. I brought that up at an extended family gathering. (Nearly everyone believes in beating the crap out of their kids.) You should have seen the looks I got. If looks could kill, I'd be dead. My sister-in-law stated "I don't care what they say, they don't have to deal with D." referring to her son. My family practices a lot of selective application of the offerings of the FDS. This article is one I wished they would apply.
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blondie
serendipidity
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w04 7/15 p. 31 "Everyone Shrewd Will Act With Knowledge" ***A rod is a symbol of authority. At Proverbs 13:24, it refers to parental authority. In this context, employing the rod of discipline does not necessarily mean spanking a child. Rather, it represents the means of correction, whatever form it may take. In one case, a rebuke kindly given to a child may be sufficient to correct improper behavior. Another child may require a stronger reproof. "A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times," says Proverbs 17:10.
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w01 12/15 p. 28 Parents—Fill Your Children’s Need! ***The Bible’s use of the word "rod" need not be understood to mean only physical punishment; it represents the means of correction, whatever form it may take. Indeed, very often words may be all that is necessary to correct a child’s wayward course. Proverbs 29:17 says: "Chastise your son and he will bring you rest and give much pleasure to your soul."
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g92 9/8 pp. 26-27 "The Rod of Discipline"—Is It Out-of-Date? ***The
Bible’s Viewpoint"The
Rod of Discipline"—Is It Out-of-Date?"Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him."—Proverbs 22:15.
"Any physical punishment is emotionally abusive and should not be sanctioned."—Parents Anonymous.
THE BIBLE’S mention of "the rod of discipline" ignites fiery controversy. This is understandable, for each year thousands of children die as a direct result of physical abuse by a parent. Perhaps this is why one Bible commentary passes off the Bible’s sanction of physical punishment as merely a "culturally conditioned opinion."
But cultural opinions did not inspire the Bible—God did. (2 Timothy 3:16) Are its comments on "the rod of discipline" unreasonable? It is important that we examine "the rod" in its context. To illustrate: The individual pieces of a jigsaw puzzle make little sense. It is only after fitting them together that one can see the whole picture. Likewise, "the rod" is just one piece of the puzzle. To see the full picture, we must fit "the rod" in with other Bible principles related to discipline.
A
Balanced ViewDoes the Bible endorse only physical punishment? Consider the following advice:
· "Never drive your children to resentment."
· "Don’t over-correct your children, or you will take all the heart out of them."
‘That’s much more reasonable than the Bible’s advice,’ some may say. But this is the Bible’s advice. It is recorded at Ephesians 6:4 (The New Jerusalem Bible) and Colossians 3:21 (Phillips).
Yes, the Bible’s viewpoint is reasonable. It acknowledges that physical punishment is usually not the most effective teaching method. Proverbs 8:33 says, "Listen to discipline" not, ‘Feel discipline.’ And Proverbs 17:10 points out that "a rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times." Furthermore, Deuteronomy 11:19 recommends preventive discipline, taking advantage of casual moments to instill moral values in one’s children. Thus, the Bible’s view of discipline is balanced.
What
About "the Rod"?Still, the Bible does mention "the rod" of discipline. (Proverbs 13:24; 22:15; 23:13, 14; 29:15) How is this to be understood?
The word "rod" is translated from the Hebrew word she´vet. To the Hebrews, she´vet meant a stick or a staff, such as that used by a shepherd. In this context the rod of authority suggests loving guidance, not harsh brutality.—Psalm 23:4.
She´vet is often used symbolically in the Bible, representing authority. (2 Samuel 7:14; Isaiah 14:5) When referring to parental authority, "the rod" does not refer exclusively to physical punishment. It encompasses all forms of discipline, which most often need not be physical. And when physical discipline is employed, it is usually because other methods have proved unsuccessful. Proverbs 22:15 says that foolishness is "tied up" ("anchored," NJB; "deep-rooted," The New English Bible) with the heart of the one receiving physical discipline. More than mere childish frivolity is involved.How Should Discipline Be Administered?In the Bible, discipline is consistently linked with love and mildness, not with anger and brutality. The skillful counselor should be "gentle toward all, . . . restrained under evil, instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed."—2 Timothy 2:24, 25.
Therefore, discipline is not an emotional outlet for the parent. Rather, it is a method of instruction. As such, it should teach an erring child. When administered in anger, physical discipline teaches the wrong lesson. It serves the need of the parent, not that of the child.
Furthermore, effective discipline has boundaries. "I shall have to chastise you to the proper degree," Jehovah says to his people at Jeremiah 46:28. This is especially vital to remember when administering physical discipline. Hitting or shaking an infant can lead to brain damage or even death. Going beyond the intended purpose of discipline—to correct and to teach—may lead to child abuse.
The Bible Does Not Promote AbuseBefore correcting his people, Jehovah said: "Do not be afraid, . . . for I am with you." (Jeremiah 46:28) Discipline should not leave a child feeling abandoned. Rather, the child should sense that the parent is ‘with him’ as a loving, supportive encouragement. If physical discipline is deemed necessary, the child should understand why. Proverbs 29:15 says that "the rod and reproof are what give wisdom."
It is a sad fact that today many use "the rod" of parental authority abusively. Yet, fault cannot be found with the Bible’s balanced principles. (Compare Deuteronomy 32:5.) When we consider "the rod" in its context, we see that it serves to teach children, not to abuse them. As in other matters, the Bible proves to be "beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness."—2 Timothy 3:16.
[Footnotes]The book Outgrowing the Pain: A Book for and About Adults Abused as Children cautions: "Spanking can become child abuse when it is done in an out-of-control way, with enough force to leave injuries. Using instruments to hit, spanking with a closed fist, hitting very young children, and hitting in vulnerable areas (face, head, stomach, back, genitals) can increase the likelihood of corporal punishment becoming child abuse."
The book Father Power, by Dr. Henry Biller and Dennis Meredith, notes: "Physical punishment need only be quite mild to be effective. If it comes from someone he loves and whom he knows loves him, the emotional impact will be enough to make the child think about what he has done."
[Picture Credit Line on page 26]The Bettmann Archive
JWs WHO BEAT THEIR CHILD TO DEATH
http://www.nospank.net/n-i69.htm
http://www.freeconservatives.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-1867.html
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/1130.htm
Blondie
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BluesBrother
Blondie's comment was the first time i had thought about the changes in some country's' laws. There are some in the UK too.The "Family Happiness" book as revised in 1996 said p60 , - "The Bible in no way endorses angry whippings or severe beatings that bruise or even injure a child"
A box on the next page makes much of selective punishments like withdrawal of privileges, or tidying up ones own mess etc .
I suspect that an awful lot of dubs are behind the times on this issue and think the Society encourages "Beating with a rod"
BTW - Welcome to the board FaeriePrincess