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sennabrasil94

Hello Everyone

Well I've been away for a while, lot of stuff to sort out in my life. So anyway I've been takeing the info from this site and all the other apostate related sites (ha ha) and haveing some debates with my family, They don't know anything I'm talking about and realy got the brain washed replys youd expect. And to prove a point, I'm now deceptively after 14 years in exile studing with an elder....to challenge him, and unknown to him I want some satisfaction for what they did to me. Apearntly he's well versed in the scriptures because I told him I wouldn't study the Control Tower stuff, He met the challenge.

Now I don't know how to combat him I havent looked at a bible in over 14 years I forgot half the crap they preach, but I'm still very bitter at the way they tore my family apart and what they said would become of me if I went to the word and became worldly.

I was wondering if any one knowledgeable would be able to arm me with some good points to challenge, I don't want to be too nasty yet I want to let this elder get comfortabe first and then start with difficut questions for him, and then release some HELL for em.

Thanks for any help or suggestions

Sennabras

COMF

Welcome back, sennabras. I'm not one for putting together stuff like you're asking for, but I can direct you to someone who does. Browse through http://www.freeminds.org. You should find more than enough there.

COMF

jurs

Hi Senna,

I was not and am still not a quick to find a scripure sort of gal, but here is my advice to you. You don't need to be!!! Just simply use your watchtower training.
For example, Remember when you went door to door. You were suppose to read the articles, have a couple of scriptures in mind to support your argument, and keep the conversation to one topic (don't jump from subject to subject). If the elder doesn't use a scripture to support his point of view and he uses an illustration instead, Tell him that your really just interested in Jehovah's point of view and you'd like to have all answers come from the bible.
Some ideas of topics that might be safe to start off with might be the cross. I read some very interesting information reguarding this on a web site. I'll research it again and post it for ya. There were scriptures to support that it wasn't a stake but a cross.
Oh yeah, stick to points where you can use scripture to support your view.
Ask about beards and ask the elder to show you from the bible why brothers with responsibilities are not allowed to wear them.
Ask On what are these teachings based ? (2Tim 3:16 and Mark 7:7)
By the way I just used the reasoning from the scriptures and used the orgs own reasoning and scriptures only to support a different topic.
The elder ( I am only guessing how I'd study with you ) probably will come to your home with a topic and scriptures in mind. You need to take control of the conversation and keep the subject to your topic.
It might be helpful to go over your reasoning book topics for example Why the JW's are the only true religion. He'll likely bring up that JW's don't fight in wars and have the identifing mark of love. or that they are the only ones going door to door. All witnesses seem to bring this up when they can't answer a question. Be prepared with a comment to those statements because they will come.
I'll go look up those scripures about the cross. I'll post ya later
jurs

gsark

Just a suggestion from one who has tried it...
There's an old saying: "I don't go where I'm not invited, and I don't stay where I'm not wanted."

If you wanted to get back at the WT, you should have gone to Ritzville. You wouldn't beleive how amazed people were at JW, ex-JW and non-JW sitting and working and eating together in peace. I was invited to a person's home! The Deputy Chief even commented on how cooperative and helpful we were compared to the JW.

If you want to get back at the WT go to the next Ritzville eqivalent, or to the civil trial, or contribute to Silentlambs. Distribute flyers and stickers in yours or someone else's neighborhoods.

Why spend time with someone who wouldn't want diddlysquat to do with you if they knew you better, when you could spend precious time and resources with people who DO like you and DO care about you, is what I want to know. All are welcome on this board, and no one is discriminated here based on race, gender, ethnicity, or anything else (since we don't KNOW what everyone is unless they tell us)except for stupidity, so if we aren't good enough for you I don't know what to say.

<"I don't want to be too nasty yet I want to let this elder get comfortabe first and then start with difficut questions for him, and then release some HELL for em.">

I have family still 'inside' and so do many on this board, and I don't care to help anyone do what you say you want to do. For all I know, it's my own son-in-law or brother-in-law you want to do this to.

How do I know you aren't a JW setting us up here on the board as others have done, and then display our responses to WT? "See, this is what ex-JW's are like"

Count me out. Leave individual JW's alone if that's what they want, it's their org, they can stay if they want. They've paid enough for it in many cases.

Just my opinion, "Take the best and leave the rest"

<"Get down off that cross; somebody needs the wood!">

jurs

Hi Senna ,
JW's in their representations of Jesus show 1 nail in both his hands. Read John 20 :25 clearly is plural - nails. there is archaeological evidence to support cross. I found this at www.dreamwater.com/spotlight/cross.htm
I'd also have these 2 scriptures memorized 1 Thessalonians5:21 and Rev 2:2. If they get suspicious that they might be going over apostate literature that you read.
Good Luck
jurs

jurs

Gsark,

I just read your post. You said you had family in and you wouldn't want to support or want done what senna is planning to do . WHY ??? I'd be happy. Think about it. If Senna has questions that the elder cant answer with scripture or scriptures that aren't in harmony with JW teaching it might one day help that elder get out of a CULT.
It seems to me like Senna has been mistreated and wants to give them Hell. I understand that. When I realized I had lost 10 years of my life I was totally angry. I had my meeting with the elders and it felt GOOD to tell them that I felt like I had been brainwashed. I fired away with my apostate literature and one elder in particular had his feelings hurt when I accuse the elders as being like Pharisees.
I guess I don't understand your desire to protect a JW from scriptures or points to use to show them that they are wrong and what they are doing is not pleasing to God.
I think your over reacting. Senna is not slashing their tires or being threatning for goodness sake , he asked for scriptures. I am happy to offer what I can .

jurs

beroea

Hallo SennaBrasil94

Welcome back. Your name brings back good memories from F1. Did you se the victories of Schumacher and Ferrari in Hungary this week?

Back to you post. Try read the “List”. At lot of old statement from the Borg and only from it’s own publications. Ask them to prove from scriptural that Jesus came as king in 1914. Let them do the work and lay back and listen.

Beroea

jurs

Hi Senna,

In another thread poster "just a mom" brought out a scripture that I thought would be beneficial for you to point out to the elder. Ezekial 34:4.
Jurs

AlanF

To Senna:

You're about to embark on an entertaining little trip with your elder friend, but you need to do a lot of homework to get the satisfaction you're looking for. Given that you're not too up on the Bible, it's best to stay away from that as much as you can. The problem is that the Bible can be interpreted in any number of ways and so, in the end, a particular interpretation usually boils down to unprovable personal opinion. Since JWs invariably claim that the opinions of JW leaders are authoritative, you can't win.

On the other hand, sticking to solidly provable issues, such as poor or incorrect arguments that the Society has printed, is much more effective. It's easy to find any number of really bad arguments in various pieces of WTS literature. For example, the recent Creator book contains several chapters that supposedly prove why one can trust the Bible. However, a careful look shows that the chapters actually only present 3-4 arguments, and each is easily shown to be a very bad one, or flat-out wrong. A lot of what is in these chapters is just a rehash of what the Bible says, but presented in an authoritative way that can fool naive readers. Some of these rehashes are transparently silly, such as recounting bits of the creation story in Genesis and then declaring, "Now isn't that scientific!"

After you go through a detailed explanation of why a particular argument is nonsensical or wrong, it's quite entertaining to watch how the conductor handles it. Usually the conductor is mentally forced into the old corner, "Well, the Society argues this way so it must be true." Of course, the conductor knows that saying this outright to someone who has sincerely challenged a WTS argument works against their claim that they can prove what they argue, so they have to find a more palatable way of telling you to ignore your own mind and accept the Society's. Sometimes the conductor will be forced to say outright, "Well, we're looking for people who will believe this material." Usually they don't see the irony in this.

So you need to figure out what general fields you're comfortable with, and stick to what you know. Otherwise you'll spend inordinate amounts of time educating yourself in ways that may be good for you, but will contribute little to your goal.

AlanF

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