need some info on pagan symbols...

DannyBloem

What pagan symbols are ok for the JW's to use, and are there some clear effidence that they are Pagan.

I'm thinking about the neck-tie
the wedding ring (any proof?)

probably a crown on a kings head will be pagan too ....

what else?

Writing was initially a pagan rite. The characters told stories and were considered part of priestly duties. The practice of using drawn representations for numbers and words was originally pagan. You need look no further than Ancient Sumerian glyphs for proof. The practice was still a revered art of Egyptian priests by the time their glyphs were being inscribed, taught only to the priests and the royal house (which is apparently why Moses knew the art). Even among Israelites, writing was not something everyone was taught.

The wedding ring : http://jesus-messiah.com/html/wedding_rings.html (I do not agree with the conclusions of this site, but it is well researched as a basis for a discussion of origin) The Oroborus (alternately Ouroborus) is the pagan symbol intended by the ring, no matter its form or significance. The Wedding ring in particular carries forward the thought of eternal bonding and endless cycle.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Shazard

Common. No ANY symbol actually is "pagan" by itself. It is YOU (human) who puts this meaning into items. Items by themselves are not good or evil. As Paul sayed... there is nothing unclean by itself, but for one who thinks it is unclean it is! See... not what comes into you (symbol) makes you sin, but whatever comes out of you makes you dirty. Try to undestand Jesus words and you will see, that people still put some "powers" on plain items, wood, iron, stone. But there is only power in alive beings. And one who you put your hope on is your God. But ofcourse... not everybody has strong faith still believing that eating meat is sin! ;)

DannyBloem

Common. No ANY symbol actually is "pagan" by itself. It is YOU (human) who puts this meaning into items. Items by themselves are not good or evil. As Paul sayed... there is nothing unclean by itself, but for one who thinks it is unclean it is! See... not what comes into you (symbol) makes you sin, but whatever comes out of you makes you dirty. Try to undestand Jesus words and you will see, that people still put some "powers" on plain items, wood, iron, stone. But there is only power in alive beings. And one who you put your hope on is your God. But ofcourse... not everybody has strong faith still believing that eating meat is sin! ;)

Alright, maybe I should have phrased the question a bit differently. I am thinking about the origin of some symbols that are now commenly used by witnesses, which are coming from a non biblical source, like a religion that is not considered biblical. For example, like the wedding right, thanks for that info. How about the crown, where does that come from?

FairMind

What I've always heard is that the neck tie is a phallic symbol, being an upside down oblisk. I suppose this is why it used to be only men that wore them.

My own opinion about the wedding ring is that it initially was worn in the nose.

Poztate

Here Is an old post of mine about ties...Some is tongue in cheek and I don't think it is all true but I HATE TIES..

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I found this information shocking I plan on forwarding it to the GB.They will put a stop to this practice.

For over two thousand years - since at least the Quin dynasty - the necktie (or cravat) has been the most widely used, and the most multicultural of all phallic symbols. Worn by the personal guard of Shih Huang Ti's terracotta army, by the orators of ancient Rome, and by a succession of dandies, fops, and power dressers throughout history, "the clothe prick" (As Lord Byron was said to have termed it) appears to be nearing the end of its unprecedented accessorial reign. The president of IBM, in a recent e-mail, announced that the cravat was no longer de rigueur for the once impeccably-tied "wing-tip warriors" of the giant multinational. Gianni Versace's latest book Men Without Ties is a runaway success. And now, at the most progressive corporations of New York, Paris, and London, it is quite permissible for men to appear dressed for business with no trace of silk, rayon, or polyester about their necks. What has come undone? Why, after an unprecedented two-thousand year reign, has the most useless, and yet the most fussed over, element of male attire gradually begun to whither in importance?

In 1900, in The Interpretation of Dreams, Sigmund Freud felt the urge to elucidate another aspect of the necktie's symbology. He wrote: "In men's dreams a necktie often appears as a symbol for the penis. No doubt this because neckties are long, dependent objects and peculiar to men. Men who make use of this symbol in dreams are often very extravagant in ties in real life and own whole collections of them." No doubt Freud was only making explicit what had been at the back of everybody's mind for quite some time, and yet his overt analysis did nothing to check the necktie's popularity. In fact, perhaps envious of such a ubiquitous form of menswear, sporting women began to wear the hanging thing. It was reasoned that a staid and well-tied male fashion accessory around the neck would counterbalance the evident feminine provocativeness of knickerbocker suits, Norfolk bodices and culotte skirts which women were beginning to wear in order to indulge in sports such as horseback riding, skating, sailing, and playing tennis.

The generation that began experimenting with neckwear in the 'fifties continued to develop their tastes in the sixties, with the Beats, the Mods, and the Regency Revivalists all taking up fantastically different and varied neckwear styles. Lord Lichfield, the dandy Royal photographer, even went to the extreme of reviving the Incroyable cravat with a huge bow. Said Lichfield: "A man doesn't dress for himself. He dresses to attract the girls.... I have an idea all men dress to be sexy like cock pheasants in the mating season."

French/American linguist and semiotician Dr Christine Nivet is more concerned about the changing phallic role of ties: "Anglophone culture is sexually very repressive, so it is not all that surprising that it spawned such a regimented symbol for virility. As Anglophone women are moving away from neo-puritan feminist ideologies, and the Anglophone men are becoming much less control-oriented, the necktie is undergoing a kind of parallel crisis. We see that the men of Versace's Men Without Ties have an ambiguous sexuality, while at the same time being quite confident. Now, in America, one can sell a perfume for men. This could not be done five years ago, just as businessman could not appear efficacious without a great big dangling tie. Anglophone men are becoming more sure, and less in need of a big display of themselves. For their part, Anglophone women are becoming more seductive, so men do not feel that they have to project their maleness all the time."

Sheepish

This discussion always makes me think of the scripture, "No thing is evil unto itself".(bold-mine of course) Practically everything on earth, and especially in regards to worship to God has been counterfited and misused. The symbols and things only have the power you give them. Thus the fact that a Christian could eat meat actually sacrificed to an idol,(like Paul says) cause it has no meaning for them. The point is intent. Do you intend to worship idols? Or just eat some food? God looks on the heart.

Thomas Poole

Check the book: The Two Babylons---Nimrod............sub title. by Alexander Hislop.

Good book, academic and responsible, good bibliograph, scritural and secular references.

Priemere Book

Thomas Poole

need some info on pagan symbols...

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