Birthday

by rootofallevil 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  rootofallevil

  I know this has been brought up before but can someone remind me how we can explain the phrase "on his own day" mentioned in Job 1:4 as meaning "on ones birthday"?

  If I remember correctly, in the same book (Job) a few chapters later there is a mention of this phrase which clearly shows that it was on their birthday.

  Also isn't it interesting that Job felt obligated to offer burnt sacrifises in case one of his children had "cursed God in their heart". Sounds to me like a banquet with a serious overindulgement of alcohol!

  Thanks for any help.
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  AlmostAtheist

  It doesn't address the Job thing, but here's my birthday refutation. I hope it's at least somewhat on topic! http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html.

  As best as I can tell, there's no way to say if the Job bit was referring to birthdays or not. Some say yes, some no, and many are in the "maybe" category.

  Dave
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  moggy lover

  Hi, Rootofallevil, as you can see from the response of AlmostAtheist your question is not an easy one to answer, precisely because the word as we use it today "birthday" - does not occur at Job 1:4. The reason is because there is no such word in the Heb. The way the Heb describes this concept is with the expression 'Yom ha-Yalad' which literally means "day of the birth" This phrase occurs at Gen 40:20, where that brilliant Heb "scholar" Freddie Franz "translated" that phrase as Pharaoh's "birthday" lit "Yom ha-Yalad" - day of his birth.

  Now let us try and answer your question - using the WTS favourite buzz word "reason" Let's now "reason" on this matter. What we want to know is: what does the expression at Job 1:4 mean when it says "his own day" - "yom" - Right?

  Well Job 3:1 uses the expression "His day" - Like Job 1:4 it is the word "Yom" - day - What "day" was Job referring to when he spoke of "his day" ???? hmmmm?

  Let's look at the very next verses, at Job 3:3, actually. Here Job tells us that he was speakng of his "Yom ha-Yalad" !!!!!! ie "the day of his birth" or [yup you guessed it] his "birthday" !!!!!!

  So - "day" of Job 3:1= "Yom ha-Yalad" ie "day of [one's] birth"- "birthday"

  Therefore, I submit that "day" of Job 1:4 = "day of [one's] birth" - "birthday"

  Actually there is at least one translation to my knowledge which uses "birthday" at Job 1:4 and it is the New Living Translation

  Incidently, if Freddie could "translate" the expression "Yom ha-Yalad" as "Birthday" at Gen 40:20, then why did'nt he do the same at Job 3:3, [or for that matter why not at Ez 16:4 as well]

  So as you can see, though we cannot be absolutely dogmatic about this matter [indeed we certainly ought not to be] we can be "reasonably" certain that textually the Heb WAS referring - in some way - to those kid's birthdays Of course the WTS will always protest [methinks they protest too loudly probably knowing how weak their case is] by quoting Prof So-and-So But believe me, I would rather be us than them on this matter. We've got several of the finest scholars to back us up [William Gesenius, Jameson Fausett and Brown, Matthew Henry, etc] plus something devastating - the freedom to think for ourselves

  Hope this helps

  Cheers
• 

  zagor

  I don’t know about Job thing, but their explanation that celebrating birthdays is wrong because in two occasions people died on such events, is pure superstition. I’m sure people also died on wedding days yet no jw ever stopped having wedding or anniversary celebrations because of that.
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  SomeGeek

  
  I was going to comment but I don't have the scriptures together...yet

  I wouldn't want to mislead anyone, or twist Words to my liking.
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  rootofallevil

  moggy lover,

  many thanks. Job 3:1-3 is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for the detailed hebrew explanations as well.

  Almostatheist,

  thanks for that link. Very logical thoughts on why birthdays should at least not be condemned if not celebrated.