God on Trial - #3 - Standard of Justice

by Amazing 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Eating Fruit: When Eve and then Adam ate the fruit, they were given the death penalty and low productivity yield from their food growing efforts. But, they did get a nice long life, somewhere around 900-930 years.

    Murder: Cain murdered his own brother, Abel. Cain whines to Jehovah about how severe his punishment is, too great to bear, and Jehovah consents to put a mark on him so that no one will harm Cain. Cain also gets a curse to the ground, although that was supposed to already be there from the time of Adam until the flood of Noah. But, I guess that meant that whatever low yield his dad Adam already had, Cain's yield would be even lower. So Cain became a wanderer, and did not have to farm anymore, but eeked out a living another way. He probably became a bookie and bet on Camel races and lamb futures.

    Minding their own business: All the people of Jericho, man woman, child, father mother, son, daughter, babies, livestock, good people and all were wiped out, even though they had no beef with Israel. Oh, except that a hooker, Rahab, was saved because she turned traitor on her people and hid the Hebrew spys.

    How to view this: Does anyone see something rather odd about this level of Justice? Am I missing something, or does it seem that we are being taught that the more you screw up in life, the better deal you can cut with God? Conversely, the more you try to live a good and honorable life, with maybe a few booboos, you get your ass kicked. - Amazing

  • anglise
    anglise

    There is a saying in the UK that 'The devil looks after his own'
    so maybe thats why so many good, kind and honest hearted people are down trodden and strugging both in the world in general and the org in particular.

  • Zep
    Zep

    What about good old King David. I remember watching this TV show called 'turn round Australia' one morning. The guy who hosts it is a bit of a bible thumper, pretty stuck in his ways. He was telling the story of David and Bathsheba (2Samuel 11). The point he was trying to make by telling this story was that you cant go against god, he will punish you in the end for your wrong doings. So he tells the story of how David lusts after Bathsheba, has sex with her, gets her pregnant, and in the end basically murders her husband Uriah because of all this. The guy then capped the story off by saying that God went ahead and punished David and that no-one escapes Gods judgment therefore. However, he never mentioned how God actually punished David. The reason why is obvious when you read the account. God's punishment upon David, apart from taking away some of his wives, was to kill the child of David and Bathsheba. Infanticide. Some God of justice. The kid gets death for something David does.

    Heres another example of Gods great sense of justice:

    At 2Samuel 24, David takes a census of Israel. Apparently this was wrong in Jehovahs eyes. So God gives him 3 choices of punishment. David doesn't choose anything. Instead he prefers to fall on the mercy of Jehovah. Gods 'mercy' is to send pestilence against all of Israel and kill 70,000 people. I wonder how many would have been children?

    What does David say to Jehovah after this mass slaughter?.

    This:

    "Here it is I that have sinned and it is I that have done wrong; but these sheep -what have they done?..."(2sam 24:17)

    Good question! What did they do? David is the one who took the census.

    Apparently God feels no need to follow his own laws:

    "Fathers should not be put to death on account of children, and children should not be put to death on account of fathers. Each one should be put to death for his own sin" Dt.24:16

    "The soul that is sinning -it itself will die. A son himself will bear nothing because of the error of the father, and a father will bear nothing because of the error of the son..." Ezek 18:20

    Nah...God doesn't care about his own laws. Like he says, he is the one "...bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation." Ex 34:7

    In other words he is a sicko!

  • Eyebrow
    Eyebrow

    The God described in the old testament certainly does not seem very loving. It is very hard to try to relate him to the God of the New Testatment.

  • Faraon
    Faraon

    Satan misleads Eve > God punishes all snakes but not Satan.

    Adam sins > He sentences all his descendants to death.

    Cain kills his brother > Punished by wandering, getting married and building a city. (I think he wandered inside the city)

    Angels rape women and have offspring with them > Most humans are sentenced to death by drowning. Also most animals, but no death sentence to spirits (children of god).

    Noah is seen naked by Cam > Canaan, Cam’s, son is punished for the deeds of his father and his descendents are to forever be slaves of the descendents of the other two brothers.

    Abraham twice pimps wife/sister > He is blessed by god “visiting” her and getting her pregnant.

    Abraham worships god > god orders him to kill his sister’s son.

    Lot is brave enough to offer his daughters to sodomites instead of himself, gets drunk, fucks daughters > Lot gets called “righteous” by the inspired word of god.

    God hardens pharaoh’s heart so he will not free Israelites > God sends 10 plagues to all Egyptians, kills all first born of ALL Egyptians because pharaoh did not let Israelites go.

    JRP

  • ChrisVance
    ChrisVance

    Eyebrow
    "The God described in the old testament certainly does not seem very loving. It is very hard to try to relate him to the God of the New Testatment."
    Do you mean the one that promises to send the four horsemen of the apocalyps(spelling?). War, Famine, Pestilence and Death. Very loving god.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Faraon: You cite some fascinating additional views that dovetails very nicely with my post. I find it most interesting to see how God works, and wonder what he expects us to learn from all this. Thanks again. - Amazing

  • individual
    individual
    What does David say to Jehovah after this mass slaughter?.

    This:

    "Here it is I that have sinned and it is I that have done wrong; but these sheep -what have they done?..."(2sam 24:17)

    Good question! What did they do? David is the one who took the census.

    Apparently God feels no need to follow his own laws:

    "Fathers should not be put to death on account of children, and children should not be put to death on account of fathers. Each one should be put to death for his own sin" Dt.24:16

    How about this for a thought... based on the evidence of the bible on how God was responding to humans and how the bible relates his feelings about how He had acted towards humans i.e the feelings of regret after He had destroyed humanity in the Flood, it seems to me that He was learning how to deal with chaotic situations. God is perfect apparently but when He created life which is naturally chaotic, humans have intelligence and can think for themselves, He created something that not only interested Him but that acted in new and surprising ways, life could take any direction it wanted. Things happen out of the blue. Even the bible says 'unforeseen circumstances'.

    Along the way God has taken some incredibly harsh decisions, I always remember the WT on blessings and maledictions which talked about how a malediction came on to some boys that had been taunting Gods prophet Elisha, they were killed by bears because they teased him (2Kings 2:24)

    'Finally he turned behind him and saw them and called down evil upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces 42 children of their number'.

    The reason for this is that they were saying ' Go up you bald head, go up you bald head'. Interesting to note that this took place at Bethel!

    Now this does not seem like the actions of a perfect God - after all these were just children doing what children do - tease! And it seems a bit harsh to rip them to pieces because of their immaturity, no matter what they said.

    Is this an example of perfect justice??
    This is just one example of many from the old testament, but in the new testament He seems to be a completely different God. Is this because He had learnt to deal with humans in a more subtle and dare I say it, humane way? I have raised this sort of issue with an elder before but I was told that I should never question God and his motives are perfect. But the evidence just speaks for itself.

    Heres another thought for you.. how would a person be viewed today if he wrote a book about his lifestory that contained some of the horrors that are within the old testament? But during the second half of the book he said he had changed... would you trust him? Wouldn't he need to explain himself and prove himself? To me I feel that God is responsible for everything that has happened in the past to humanity and He has to share the responsibility of what is happening now in various parts of the world. As a human I would not be able to stand by and watch children being hurt and murdered in the way that they are in todays world - if I stood by and just watched these things happening right before my eyes (just as God does) I would have to share in the responsibility for the wrongs that are being committed. If a woman was being raped right in front of me and I did nothing to help I would be as guilty as those carrying out the act. I feel that God has been responsible for a lot that has happened in the old testament but He gives no evidence or any justification of why He did it in the name of justice.

    In a perfect world He would want us to understand why He did all the things He did, but the evidence of the old testament is wanting, it is lacking in feelings of humanity.

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