Catholics, the trinity and JWs

by willy_think 7 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  willy_think

  while i was looking for info on the catholic trinity i found this
  site. i thought it might be of intterest because it mentions JWs buy name. there are other references to JWs. what do the catholics say about JWs?
  http://www.catholic.com/
  click- answers
  on the next page click God
  Radio Programs (RealAudio)
  One God--Three Divine Persons (guest: Tim Staples)

  i also found this Q/A site on the catholics. thay talk about the JWs too. i found it interesting.

  http://www.cpats.org/

  the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Willy: While I have not reviewed what the Catholic Church has recently said about the JWs, I am sure their statements are moderate for the most part. I was raised Roman Catholic, and our view of the JWs was that they were just another small Protestant fringe group that started up to define their own doctrine and write their own Bible to suit themselves.

  Most Catholic comments that I have read in years past simply and factually state the history and dogma that the JWs are known for. The Catholic Church has little else to say 'officially.'

  Some Catholic theologians, leaders, and publications have carried articles from time to time that either contain some level of parise for JWs and their consistent dedication to their 'door-to-door' work and other activities, or they contain some level of criticism, such as the JW stand on Blood, etc.

  In my opinion, except for certain localized situations where a Catholic congregation and Priests have caused trouble for the JWs, the Church has been moderate and kind overall. Decades ago, in some locations, such as Quebec (Canada), Greece, some strong Catholic pockets in the USA, some European and Asian nations, Catholics and some Priests have caused very bad treatment and persecution for the JWs. Most of this took place in the first half of the 20th Century, and then faded down to a trickle.

  After I became a JW, I was subjected to some small amount of mistreatment that at the time I labeled as 'persecution' including some unfortunate interactions with my Priest and relatives. In retrospect, all these events were due to hurt and anger from my Catholic relatives, friends, and Priest. Yet, they never shunned me, or treated me as an outcast 'Apostate.' Their love and patience won out after 25 years. They all were there for me all along, and to welcome me back into the human race. - Amazing
• 

  willy_think

  hi Amazing,
  although my mom is catholic (buy name if not deed) I wasn't raised Roman Catholic that is why i am reading about them.
  one thing i found is thay don't view JWs as just another small Protestant fringe group. thay don't view JWs as christians at all. now that blew my mind! i had no idea.

  i can not believe how much info there is on every question i could think of. i'm going to wear out my library card! lol. thousands of years worth of debates and essays to go through.

  my grand farther is happy i am reading the early church fathers and the counsels. i am also reading works buy Martin Luther as well as writings buy non-christian historians like Suetonis, Tacitus and Pliny. he toled me "all the others who call themselves christian clame to be geting back to the early church. but thay never ever read any of the early christian writers. and the ones that do come home." i think that is close to what he said. any way, he was telling me look out you'll be a catholic soon. lol. doubtful, but it makes him happy to think so. i did find the JW arguements weak in comparison. it is like comparing the reasoning of a child to that of adult.
  well i just thought the sites might be of interest. in the Q/A site i asked a few questions i would call challanging. thay were answered in full with rferences and suggested readings.(which i asked for) i feel like i'm back in school. well it gives me somthing to do while i'm laid off.
• 

  CPiolo

  In my opinion, except for certain localized situations where a Catholic congregation and Priests have caused trouble for the JWs, the Church has been moderate and kind overall.

  Amazing:

  This reminds me of something my mother has repeated to me over the years; that all religions are made up of people, and some people are better than others. To illustrate the point she told me of her parents --her father was Catholic and her mother Presbyterian-- and visits by the parish priest, who, because my grandmother was not of the "faith," refused to acknowledge or speak to her. She also recounted how some of the priests she had known over the years were some of the most ignorant and bigoted people she has come into contact with. On the other hand, she had met many Catholic clergy who were very good decent people. She, from an early age, was able to make the distinction between the person and the religious organization they belong to.

  I would imagine that most religions, including JWs, are made up of decent, kind people. The problem seems to be when people allow others (people or organizations) to do their thinking for them. Some, either intentionally or not, by their very nature are more inclined to try and influence others or even require submission to their authority. I don't believe this is a healthy relationship, but humans are often lazy, and we unconsciously give ourselves over to others, giving up self-determinism and our power to make decisions for ourselves.

  willy_think:

  My Mom is an armchair Catholic as well. I don't think she's set foot in a church, other than for weddings, and maybe a midnight mass or two on Christmas Eve, for 40 years. She still considers herself Catholic though.

  CPiolo
• 

  bluesapphire

  Hi Willy-think. I did just as you. And I did become Catholic again. Have you read the book, "A Heavenly Journey" by Veralyn R. Alpha? This book is a fictional story about an angel who comes to a man who is strongly anti-Catholic. The angel takes the man back through the centuries to the early fathers. It puts the man in the very same room as the early fathers and quotes the early fathers writings -- their interpretations of what is in the Bible. It's really good.

  The back cover says this: If it were possible for you to visit the early Church, would your beliefs be the same, or would the first Christians have considered you heretical or schismatic?

  Here is a fictional account ofa young evangelist who accompanies the Archangel Gabriel back to the early days of the Church to contrast his current beliefs with those of the first Christians. Although the story is fictitious, the information quoted and the words of the angel are based on historical and Biblical facts, primarily gathered from unbiased sources such as Bibles, encyclopedias, and other reference books. Because the story emphasizes the "factual" side, the main objective here is to encourage the reader to examine his or her own beliefs with those who formulated the infant Church after the Ascension of Jesus, its founder.

  Here is a simple yet interesting storyline, packed with historical and Biblical truths, that enables all of us to uncover the basis for those differences that have separated many denominations from the Catholic Church.

  The author, Veralyn R. Alpha, along with her entire family, converted to Catholicism....

  The publisher is Faith Publishing Company.

  BTW: Have you read the letters of Pope Clement? Very interesting reading there. Or the Didache?
• 

  willy_think

  CPiolo, hi
  that is it for my mom too "an armchair Catholic" i like the way you put it. i think that being an armchair JW is enough to get my dad DF isn't it? maby not but i've never heard of one.

  hey bluesapphire,
  i've never read "A Heavenly Journey" but i did put it on my library list. thanks for the reccomandation.

  i did read Pope Clement's letters and his Recognitions books on the website, http://www.cpats.org/ and i have a requested his works from the library so i can spend some more time to go over them. i find it funny how we ask the same questions of ourselves to this very day. here is a quote from book one:

  "I Clement, who was born in the city of Rome, was from my earliest age a lover of chastity; while the bent of my mind held me bound as with chains of anxiety and sorrow. For a thought that was in me--whence originating, I cannot tell--constantly led me to think of my condition of mortality, and to discuss such questions as these: Whether there be for me any life after death, or whether I am to be wholly annihilated: whether I did not exist before I was born, and whether there shall be no remembrance of this life after death, and so the boundlessness of time shall consign all things to oblivion and silence; so that not only we shall cease to be, but there shall be no remembrance that we have ever been. This also I revolved in my mind: when the world was made, or what was before it was made, or whether it has existed from eternity. For it seemed certain, that if it had been made, it must be doomed to dissolution; and if it be dissolved, what is to be afterwards?--unless, perhaps, all things shall be buried in oblivion and silence, or something shall be, which the mind of man cannot now conceive."

  Didache yes yes yes :) i have a translation in print and one is available at the http://www.cpats.org/ site or directly at: gopher: //ccat.sas.upenn.edu:3333/00/Religious/ChurchWriters/ApostolicFathers/Didache

  i hope you are happy with your become Catholic again. but as for me it's a long shot. i'll tell you what, if i should ever become Catholic i'll write an essay titled " How the WT comverted me to catholism" lol
  my grandfarther reccomanded a book called "Comming home to Rome"
  i can't remember the author. have you read it?

  the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
• 

  bluesapphire

  I don't know if I've read "Coming Home to Rome" or not. If it's the one by Scott and Kimberly Hahn, then I've read it. Other books which are good are: Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic; The King's Highway by Kenneth Guindon (a former JW); Surprized by Truth (numerous short conversion stories of protestant pastors and religious leaders and what lead them to convert); and a really good one, By What Authority.

  You can purchase most of these books at Saint Joseph Communications. I'll have to get their number for you if you want email me at [email protected] and I'll give it to you. There is also a website but I don't know the link by heart. They also have a few tapes from JW converts.

  I just want to add that I DO NOT LIKE to try to "convert" people to Catholicism. I believe we are all brothers in Christ no matter what denomination you belong to. I feel that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ but that doesn't mean that no other religion has truth too. I just wanted to make that clear because I don't like to be dogmatic. I share my experiences with you and that's it. Good luck to you in your search.
• 

  Quester

  willy_think wrote:
  "thay don't view JWs as christians at all.
  now that blew my mind! i had no idea."

  I think the main reason why Catholics
  and other traditional Christian religions
  don't consider Jehovah's Witnesses Christian
  is because JW's don't believe in the
  Trinity doctrine.

  Quester