I am saying this as a joke towards trinitarian reasoning but if a person acts on trinitarian assumption the bible could be used to prove Moses is Jehovah God of the old testaments. One of the things that I notice with Trinitarians is that they are constantly using "circular" reasoning in their attempts to prove Jesus is Jehovah. They seem to rely heavily on if a certain title is used for Jehovah and is again used for Jesus then that is proof positive that Jesus is Jehovah. But this circular reasoning can lead trinitarians into very embarassing positions. Moses is called Savior in the old testaments. Jehovah specifically states at Isaiah 43:11 that there is no Savior with me. One of the embarrassing questions for trinitarians to answer is How could Moses be called a "Savior" when Jehovah dogmatically informs bible readers he is the only Savior? When Jesus is called Savior in the NT Trinitarians jump and shout "see Jesus is Jehovah because both are called Savior" and they will acturally quote Isaiah 43:11 to prove it. But the question again is what does that make Moses? Here you will get silence from trinitarians because by their own argument this would make Moses and Jehovah God one and the same. Jesus is called the one "Mediator" between God and man. Moses is also called the"Mediator" in the OT. So by trinitarian reasoning Moses has to Jesus Christ. In the OT Jehovah said that he is the one that is "pierced" but trinitarians argue that Jesus is the one that is "pierced" so this they say proves Jesus is Jehovah. But trinitarians forget to tell people that Mary the mother of Jesus is also said to be "pierced" so this has to prove that Mary the mother of Jesus is Jehovah God. The old testaments is called "the law of Moses" but it is also called "the law of God" so again does this prove that Moses is Jehovah God because the OT is said to be both of their laws. Nebucchnezzar (sorry for the spelling error) is called "King of Kings" in the OT but Jesus is also called King of Kings so again Nebucchnezzar and Jesus are both Jehovah God according to Trinitarian reasoning. Again on Nebucchnezzar from the OT is said to "alone" know the interpretation to his dream. Since Trinitarians argue heavily on the word "alone" in Isaiah 44:24 when Jehovah says he "alone" created the earth Trinitarians argue that the word "alone" excludes Jesus from helping Jehovah created the world. So if we use this line of reasoning than Jehovah does not know the interpretation of the dream which would mean that there are some things Nebucchnezzar knows that Jehovah does not know. The next time you speak with a trinitarian bring up this points and watch him or her wiggle around for some answers.
Since Moses shares same titles with Jehovah and Jesus does it make him God?
by booker-t 5 Replies latest jw experiences
-
-
Shazard
And why JW thinks that "God" is title but not name of nature? Word "dog" can be title and can be description of nature!
-
Kristofer
Booker-T, do you have references for your Moses claims?
-
Carmel
To Him Isaiah, the greatest of the Jewish prophets, had alluded as the "Glory of the Lord," the "Everlasting Father," the "Prince of Peace," the "Wonderful," the "Counsellor," the "Rod come forth out of the stem of Jesse" and the "Branch grown out of His roots," Who "shall be established upon the throne of David," Who "will come with strong hand," Who "shall judge among the nations," Who "shall smite the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips slay the wicked," and Who "shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." Of Him David had sung in his Psalms, acclaiming Him as the "Lord of Hosts" and the "King of Glory." To Him Haggai had referred as the "Desire of all nations," and Zachariah as the "Branch" Who "shall grow up out of His place," and "shall build the Temple of the Lord." Ezekiel had extolled Him as the "Lord" Who "shall be king over all the earth," while to His day Joel and Zephaniah had both referred as the "day of Jehovah," the latter describing it as "a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, a day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers." His Day Ezekiel and Daniel had, moreover, both acclaimed as the "day of the Lord," and Malachi described as "the great and dreadful day of the Lord" when "the Sun of Righteousness" will "arise, with healing in His wings," whilst Daniel had pronounced His advent as signalizing the end of the "abomination that maketh desolate."
To His Dispensation the sacred books of the followers of Zoroaster had referred as that in which the sun must needs be brought to a standstill for no less than one whole month. To Him Zoroaster must have alluded when, according to tradition, He foretold that a period of three thousand years of conflict and contention must needs precede the advent of the World-Savior Shah-Bahram, Who would triumph over Ahriman and usher in an era of blessedness and peace.
He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that "a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship" should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal "His boundless glory." To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the "Most Great Spirit," the "Tenth Avatar," the "Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna."
To Him Jesus Christ had referred as the "Prince of this world," as the "Comforter" Who will "reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment," as the "Spirit of Truth" Who "will guide you into all truth," Who "shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak," as the "Lord of the Vineyard," and as the "Son of Man" Who "shall come in the glory of His Father" "in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory," with "all the holy angels" about Him, and "all nations" gathered before His throne. To Him the Author of the Apocalypse had alluded as the "Glory of God," as "Alpha and Omega," "the Beginning and the End," "the First and the Last." Identifying His Revelation with the "third woe," he, moreover, had extolled His Law as "a new heaven and a new earth," as the "Tabernacle of God," as the "Holy City," as the "New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." To His Day Jesus Christ Himself had referred as "the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of His glory." To the hour of His advent St. Paul had alluded as the hour of the "last trump," the "trump of God," whilst St. Peter had spoken of it as the "Day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat." His Day he, furthermore, had described as "the times of refreshing," "the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy Prophets since the world began."
To Him Muhammad, the Apostle of God, had alluded in His Book as the "Great Announcement," and declared His Day to be the Day whereon "God" will "come down" "overshadowed with clouds," the Day whereon "thy Lord shall come and the angels rank on rank," and "The Spirit shall arise and the angels shall be ranged in order." His advent He, in that Book, in a surih said to have been termed by Him "the heart of the Qur'án," had foreshadowed as that of the "third" Messenger, sent down to "strengthen" the two who preceded Him. To His Day He, in the pages of that same Book, had paid a glowing tribute, glorifying it as the "Great Day," the "Last Day," the "Day of God," the "Day of Judgment," the "Day of Reckoning," the "Day of Mutual Deceit," the "Day of Severing," the "Day of Sighing," the "Day of Meeting," the Day "when the Decree shall be accomplished," the Day whereon the second "Trumpet blast" will be sounded, the "Day when mankind shall stand before the Lord of the world," and "all shall come to Him in humble guise," the Day when "thou shalt see the mountains, which thou thinkest so firm, pass away with the passing of a cloud," the Day "wherein account shall be taken," "the approaching Day, when men's hearts shall rise up, choking them, into their throats," the Day when "all that are in the heavens and all that are on the earth shall be terror-stricken, save him whom God pleaseth to deliver," the Day whereon "every suckling woman shall forsake her sucking babe, and every woman that hath a burden in her womb shall cast her burden," the Day "when the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord, and the Book shall be set, and the Prophets shall be brought up, and the witnesses; and judgment shall be given between them with equity; and none shall be wronged."
(Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 94)
-
gumby
The name "Jesus" (derived from the Hebrew Joshua itself means salvation.
I just want to say to you bookert or who ever you are, that jesus christ the lord of hosts and the almighty god will see to it that you end up in the pits of hell because you no see the diety of jesus...the god of abraham i-zik bekka, and methusela.
Gumby
-
Black Sheep
The next time you speak with a trinitarian bring up this points and watch him or her wiggle around for some answers.
Your treatise is a 'straw man' arguement that will work well when the recipient only has a superficial knowledge of his belief system, a tactic employed by the WTBTS with decreasing effectiveness.
Cheers
Chris