Denial of Baptism - Will that work?

by VM44 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  VM44

  I was reminded today of a previous thread here at JWD, which of course I am having trouble finding now, in which the poster told his judicial committee that he was never baptised! This confused the JC so much, they did not know how to proceed!

  And it turns out that there was no one who remembered him being baptised either!

  The only record of a person's baptisim is the date recorded on the person's publisher card, but is that really proof?

  When a person is baptised, there is no one checking off names, you just go to the pool, get immersed, and that is it. It is a public event, but there are so many people getting baptised (at least at conventions one time long ago) no one remembers any one person being baptised. So much for baptism being an person's public announcement.

  Of course it would be hard to deny being baptised if someone was taking pictures or filming you as your were being dunked.

  The idea of throwing a wrench into the JW bureaucracy in this way is fascinating. All you have to do is say to the elders, "Prove that I was baptised", and that stops things there.

  Does anyone know who originally posted this story?

  --VM44
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  Virgochik

  Ha-ha, so if they ever chase me down, I was baptized in another state, have a married name now, and no photos were taken.

  So, prove it!
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  Finally-Free

  Now I'm wishing I didn't DA just so I could try it out. There were pictures taken of me, but I have them all now.

  W
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  Finally-Free

  Just another thought. If enough people tried it the society might ask people to sign something before getting dunked, in which case people baptised as minors might have some recourse if they are shunned later on.

  W
• 

  VM44

  mkr32208 came up with the "Denial of Baptism" approach.

  Here are the threads:

  Elders just called
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/103968/1.ashx

  Help help help! ASAP please!
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/104246/1.ashx

  denying that I was baptized seems to have worked
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/105152/1.ashx

  IT WORKED IT WORKED IT WORKED ELDERS ARE PISSED
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/105230/1.ashx

  Page 5 of the last thread contains a "Denial of Baptism" letter.

  How effective this approach would be depends upon the individual's circumstances.

  --VM44
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  VM44

  Bringing back this old thread to ask the following question.

  What will the elders do if someone denies that they were ever baptized?

  To prove a person was baptized, they would require two or three witnesses to the fact, but what if there are none?

  They can't disfellowship the person; they can't say the person is disassociated.

  What can the elders do?
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  Phizzy

  I think they may pull the same argument they use if you say "I was baptised too young" etc

  They say that by accepting the direction of the WT you have agreed to be a member, even if you are a sister who has merely perhaps watched a contribution box at a Convention, you have shown by your action you considered yourself a member, merely going in FS as a JW and representing yourself as such would be considered sufficient.

  I know initially such a tactic may make them pause, but once they 'phone Gestapo H.Q they will be advised on how to proceed in such a way that you are DF'd regardless.

  Facts, logic, Justice etc etc matter not to this lot, getting rid of a trouble maker is all they care about.
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  Band on the Run

  Phizzy,

  Do you mean that you can be considered baptized without being immersed in water and the magic words pronounced? I can see why they have the shunning policy. It gives them power over you. People would just walk away in disgust or confusion but for fear of losing all social ties.
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  Phizzy

  I am not 100% sure that if they were unable to prove your baptism took place they would pull the stunt I outline above, but it would not surprise me.

  Possibly, if you were no threat at all, and simply wished to walk away, maybe, just maybe, they would allow it, if you were perceived as a threat they would proceed as above or in a similar way to spike your guns.

  The best way to go about it if you are sure they cannot prove you ever were dunked, is to be ever so repentant if you are caught for anything, and convince the Elders you are going to work towards baptism, and then fade.

  I think denial is a move unlikely to work, in most cases.
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  blondie

  It would be rare that someone that was baptized had no pictures of their baptism (so many had close jw family eager for them to be safe for Armageddon) and so many people attend nowadays with many baptisms right at the convention/assembly. Many it looks like religious paparazzi at these things.

  No one I knew was at my baptism and no pictures....even the brother who signed the form in the Lamp book (yellow/prior to Organized books) died long ago.