If your a JW part 2

KW13

Some other points i want to bring up.

IF God has a chozen organization, surely you keep up with him, not the other way around. Light being revealed from the most wise God wouldn't surely allow for mistakes. Would he risk people losing out because of the mistakes men made?

IF you believe Gods organization can make mistakes, how is that different to any other religious cult, group, faith?

Why would God allow his "organization" to be so structured? Surely the Society shouldn't become more important than the message that Jesus gave? How come more time is spent being a JW than it is on people door?

Surely this sort of stuff couldn't be owned. Rather Jesus would allow anyone with a Bible on the most basic level to help someone learn what Jesus promised.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/112856/1.ashx - This topic is good

If the 144,000 are a literal number, why not accept that these are virgin MALES also? Where does it say only these can partake at the memorial?

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ive pointed out before the following...

Not allowed to look at sites that disagree with the Society (you can label this with the word apostate, which scares you away from it)
Not to read books that disagree with the Society (you can label this with the word apostate, which scares you away from it)
Not meant to watch Video's or films that disagree with the society (you can label this with the word apostate, which scares you away from it)
Not allowed to associate with folks who are 'bad association' incase they spoil your useful habits. Thing is, it takes that scripture way too far and affects a lot of relationships with family/friends...could this be incase they raise a good point that makes you doubt the Society??
Christmas/Birthdays, i know there are 'other' reasons not to do these but could you listen to someone who might make you doubt the society?
Disfellowshipping Apostates...MAYBE just maybe this means ones who are kicked out can't help anyone and show them the truth.

KW13

Also yes, people can have a "bad experience" but why so many?

Folks losing people they care about because they are shunned. Depression, hurt and some go as far as suicide.

vitty

Cos the congregations are being refined

Mary

IF you believe Gods organization can make mistakes, how is that different to any other religious cult, group, faith?

If you ask a Witness this, they'll try to say it's "different" with the Organization, because they're going on the erroneous assumption that Jehovah IS using the WTB&TS/Governing Body. Once you have that firmly entrenched in your brain, anything, including false prophecies, flip flopping on doctrines or other "mistakes" are justified as "new truths" or "new light" on God's Holy People. And the same logic is applied to other religious cults or groups: the Witnesses go on the assumption that they're all false and part of Babylon the Great. Therefore, whatever they do is wrong, wrong, wrong. And when they do something good, they're still bad people because they're not part of the Organization.

Surely the Society shouldn't become more important than the message that Jesus gave?

You're right KW, the Society shouldn't be more important that the message Jesus gave, but that's exactly what's happened. For the past few years, the Memorial talk has definitely shifted it's focus from Jesus to the "annointed". Jesus is barely mentioned anymore. And when I listened to the tapes that SickofLies recorded during his JC, the one elder specifically said that they have to go by what the Watchtower Society says. Forget about what Jesus says.

If the 144,000 are a literal number, why not accept that these are virgin MALES also?

Bingo! I asked an elder this years ago and his response was that "it's figurative". Uh, so then how is the number 144,000 taken as literal? Well, they contrast it with the "great crowd which no man was able to number"........they say it lacks "meaning" if the number were symbolic. So what about the part that says that 12,000 were taken "out of every tribe of Israel"?? Isn't that referring to literal Israel? Uh, no that's symbolic too. So to summarize you've got: 12,000 symbolic people x 12 symbolic tribes of Israel = 144,000 literal Jehovah's Witnesses.

Makes perfect sense eh?

Great post!

KW13

Thanks mary. I've never tried the Virgin one on my mum...maybe i should lol

Mary

I've never tried the Virgin one on my mum...maybe i should

Definitely. I would also ask her why Revelation specifically mentions the 12 Tribes of Israel by name, if it's only "symbolic". Be prepared to be labelled as an apostate if you ask her too many questions like this.

KW13

she already has labeled me to a degree but now i think she sees it as me asking questions.

funny thing is, she has started saying "well i'm happy now, i'm 100% convinced its the truth" but her tone of voice says aaaaaah too much, i am scared.

truth.ceeker

I have always wondered about the "Light Getting Brighter" reply. I asked my friend one time why do they say that and his response was, "Pretend you were in a dark tunnel and were walking towards the end where the light was at. If you got there too fast, then you might be blinded because your eyes had not got adjusted to it." and he would say, "Or pretend you had bandages on your eyes and then they were removed quickly, then your eyes would be blinded as they needed some time to adjust to the light."

I just couldn't get past that analogy as being a poor choice. The mind can definitely comprehend faster than the eyes can adjust to light. And why would our GOD keep making changes to what he was teaching. I understand that GOD has a purpose and not plans. What he purposes does become whereas plans are not set in stone. What I sense is that with time, the interpretation of the scriptures changes to what is acceptable, what can be pushed on the people, a kind of limit that the GB can impose on the people. When times change, GB changes, society changes, then a new light has to be revealed in order to keep up with what is the popular opinion.

my observations

truth.ceeker

truth.ceeker

And to go along with your point that we are not allowed to research doctrinal matters on the web, in the library, etc, is about as hypocritical as they can get. All I have to do is look at a watchtower or awake magazine and find an abundant amount of references to "worldy" sources that promote the doctrine. Nevermind that is it the 1% of the majority and that there is little to no concrete evidence to promote such an idea.
I read in the NT that we are to test every saying coming out of a teacher to see whther it does originate with GOD. For me, I need to use alot of different research articles from both sides of an issue in order to draw my own conclusion and hope that it is the right one, according to what GOD has purposed. So if I were to test what is taught in the watchtower against the bible and "worldly" sources, then I would be looked down upon.
GOD said that all who seek HIM with a righteous heart would find HIM. I believe that if my heart is in the right state and I'm trying to learn about HIM for the right reasons, then HE would allow me to find HIM and learn the real "Truth" of the matter.
As Jesus said to his disciples to continue to listen to the Pharisee's because their teaching was good, but do not 'do'hat they were doing. I think it is sort of like GOD does use many different avenues to help those learn about him, both the good and the not-so-good.

..as I continue my search for the truth..
truth.ceeker

Mary

I have always wondered about the "Light Getting Brighter" reply. I asked my friend one time why do they say that and his response was, "Pretend you were in a dark tunnel and were walking towards the end where the light was at. If you got there too fast, then you might be blinded because your eyes had not got adjusted to it." and he would say, "Or pretend you had bandages on your eyes and then they were removed quickly, then your eyes would be blinded as they needed some time to adjust to the light."

This is such nonsense but a typical Dub response and has absolutely no basis in the scriptures. The one single scripture they do use has absolutely nothing to do with getting biblical prophecy wrong, but is talking about the path of unrighteousness and of righteousness. If you read the verses before and after the verse they take out of context, it becomes clear:

(Proverbs 4:14-24) 14

Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. 15 Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn aside from it, and pass along. 16 For they do not sleep unless they do badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble. 17 For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. 18 But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. 19 The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling. 20 My son, to my words do pay attention. To my sayings incline your ear. 21 May they not get away from your eyes. Keep them in the midst of your heart. 22 For they are life to those finding them and health to all their flesh. 23 More than all else that is to be guarded, safeguard your heart, for out of it are the sources of life.

Nowhere can you get the idea that the above scripture is talking about interpreting scriptures. It's simply talking about living your life either as a righteous or unrighteous person----end of story.

If your a JW part 2

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