by patio34 6 Replies latest jw friends
Hi all,
It's common to see "we're all imperfect humans" or the like. My question is who says? Aside from the Bible and religious teachings, that statement is untrue.
If one is an atheist, we are all as perfect as can be on this planet earth and in the present stage of evolution. Evolution does not care about 'perfection,' only survival.
So, I don't think that statement about imperfection should be applied outside of a religious context. Speak for yourself.
Rebuttals?
Pat
I don't believe realigion or Bibles' theory of imperfection.
A God who would make generations of people suffer for the mistake of their ancestors and then allow the one ultimatily responsible for it all in the first place (Saten) to have a six thousand year or so party is not loving or perfect in my opinion.
This is what belief in the Bible requires of us. No thank you!!
We are no more imperfect than the rest of life here on this earth.
We are neither perfect or imperfect.We are not flawed,were just being the natural humans we are.
We do make mistakes an misjudguments but I do not define that as imperfection.
Some of us still use the statement "were all imperfect" just as a reminder of our humanity,not meaning that we buy into that belief.
Does this make sense?
I don't expect every one to agree.This is just how I feel now.
Ranchette
Here's something off the top of my head: I suppose being imperfect means you don't accomplish what you intend to do. For example, you may not make a throw through the basket when playing basketball every time. But it seems that all depends on an understanding and working with the relationship between you and the court, the ball and the air. Someone who has a good feel for their own body first of all, and the elements involved in play will have a better chance of making the shot every time. Of course, there are always unknowns no matter how small, so there are no guarantees. Technically, then, imperfection means you don't know everything that impacts what you set out to accomplish. Well.. Big deal. It's possible to have a good enough grasp of the situation to be reasonably sure. If perfection is dependent on unknowns then the perfect world will be kind of boring, there is nothing left to learn. Even JW theologies allows for unknowns after human perfection is achieved doesn't it?
In the context of Pat's original question, the term "imperfect" is used in the sense of being "sinful", and Pat draws the correct conclusion; that we are NOT imperfect. Pefection/imperfection are a dichotomy created by metaphysicians for the execise of control. It is appropriate to reject such guilt mechanisms.
It is enough that we simply are; don't play the WTB&TS' "perfection game." Eternal perfect life is an imaginary carrot dangling from a very real stick. You'll get the stick, never the carrot.
The objective, demonstrable truth is that man, by the use of his brain and his labor, has continually improved his condition. we're doing quite well without the "benevolence" of a priest-ocratic totalitarian global "paradise".
"I wish to see, and I mean this most sincerely, I wish to see the last King strangled with the guts of the last Priest." - Voltaire
I agree with you and just to add my own two thoughts:
1. What people consider as genetic imperfections are created by the same evolutionary processes which create genetic advancements.
2.If on a distant planet, life evolved that never got sick or died of old age, it would rapidly over populate it's planet which in turn would rapidly run out of the resources to support life.
Maybe it's happened, who knows?
Patio,
My definition of "perfection" is reaching your full potential in a given situation. For example, in the context of JW.com, if I author a thread or a reply that fully expresses my thoughts in every way, I consider it "perfect." If I think later that, "I wish I'd said this-or-that," my original post I view as "imperfect."
The same gradient can be applied to every activity. An athlete who gives his best in every situation of a contest can be said to have played a "perfect game." Athletes don't play perfect games.
tj
Hi all,
Ranchette, so true that it's a religious concept: that of imperfection, riddled with all the inherencies of biblical 'truths.'
Introspection, imperfection in a not-religious context makes perfect sense. Of course, we don't do things perfectly every time. That doesn't prove anything about the Bible's assertion of imperfection.
Ballistic, it's true that what are considered genetic 'imperfections' are what really fuel evolution. Every once in a great while, a mutation is beneficial. Hence, progression of the species.
Nathan, it's so true that the idea of 'imperfection' carries with it burdens of guilt. Who's to say what are and what's not (ie, sin). The priests/clergy/elders who empower themselves over everyone else. I love your quote from Voltaire. It's true that the kings and priests have been tyrants over people for eons.
Teejay, that's absolutely true. Just because there is always room for improvement doesn't prove the doctrine of imperfection religiously.
Pat :-)
