has the full 144,000 got to heaven yet?

headmath

any ideas on how many remnant have made it to heaven?

That is the question. Most people here do not believe that the number of
144 000 in that verse is literal because everything else in it is symbolic we have 144 000 male, virginal, Jews.

Had it been literal then it woulds have been completed long before the JWs appeared, and also for them to claim that they provided in a few decades over a third of the 144 000 members (52 000 out of 144 000) is simply unbelievably grandiose.

LittleToe

If a literal number, then the number was filled during the first century of Christianity, especially after the Martyrdoms of Nero and Trajans' day. More than likely it is equivalent to the Great Crowd, though.

LT, of the "Modified Preterist" class.

lovelylil

the 144,000 is definately not a literal number. it is taken from the most symbolic book in the bible which even states it is written in signs and symbols.

I always found it interesting that the WT ties the 144,000 to the "little flock" which when read in context, is obviously the natural Jews only. We know the gentiles were not preached to until after Christ's resurrection when he told the diciples "go now and baptize people in all the nations", wasn't this obviously showing now the work was opened to the gentiles? I believe that is what Jesus meant when he said "I have other sheep not of this fold", also he said they must become one flock. How can some of the flock be in heaven and some on earth? Shouldn't the flock be in the same pen? Which means they have to be all together in heaven?

Also, in Revelation I find it interesting that it does not even directly link the 144,000 to being kings or priests although I do believe they are part of the church. But notice what it says about who will be priests (remember the promise to the heavenly ones to be a holy nation, royal priesthood?)

Revelation chapter 5:

9 And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.

10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth. (some bibles say over the earth)

More about the great crowd:

Revelation 7:15

And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,
"they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;

Some bibles say inner santuary instead of temple - the place where God dwells

Oops, I guess the bible did not not confer with the WT on their teaching that this (great crowd) group are going to be just lowly servants under the 144,000 on the earth with no priestly or kingly duties, now did they?

Star Moore

Hello Headmath...

That being said about the 144,000 possibly not being a literal number. The way I see it is, that going to heaven is just a state of being at 'one' with God and Christ, rather than floating up into the sky. I also think that, when we put on the incorruptible bodies, they will be bodies, that will be perfect instead of the ones we have now; in the fallen flesh. And I believe that the 144,000 and the great crowd have the same hope, and that is life on EARTH>.. But that's just my opinion... Good night..getting late..here in Michigan..

moomanchu

any ideas on how many remnant have made it to heaven?

Nope

But what in the world are they doing up there?

The whole reason they go is to rule the earth right?

They must be so bored in heaven right now.

blondie

What does the WTS teach?

They teach that all of the 144,000 have to be in heaven when the marriage of the Lamb (and Bride of Christ) takes place shortly after Babylon the Great is destroyed (their first segment of the Great Tribulation)

Yet at times they teach that some will still be alive and on earth after the Great Tribulation.

So if the end is as close as they say, VERY SOON NOW, then I think recent appointees to the governing body can expect to be dying soon.

Blondie

Satanus

It seems jehovah hasn't been able to find 144k faithful ones all during the last 2 milleniums. Satan keeps taking them away from him. God is so lousey at keeping people faithful to him.

S