Made to live forever?

by mavie 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  mavie

  Public Talk last Sunday the speaker reasoned that man was made to live forever because of how the body renews and heals itself along with pointing out how complex and grand our bodies are made. Here is the outline
  

  MAN WAS MADE TO LIVE FOREVER (9 min.)

  Scientists are uncertain why man dies (g88 10/8 24; g90 4/22 4)

  Some humans live exceptionally long (g86 8/8 31)

  Bible shows that man's original life-span was unlimited (Ge 2:16, 17; g77 2/22 27, 28; g90 4/22 7-8)

  Evidence of brain's capacity and functions and amazing process of cell renewal for entire body indicate man was designed to last forever (tp 101-2; g88 8/8 16-20)

  Everlasting life would mean restoration to man's original condition of perfection

  We conclude, then, that we were evidently designed to live forever, but does that sound desirable to you?

  I was thinking during this section...don't animals have cell renewal processes and brains that continue to learn throughout life? Animals certainly don't have the hope of everlasting life, so how can this process be used as a proof? I couldn't connect the fact that the body renews itself with the conclusion this means we are meant to live forever.

  Also, later in the talk the speaker mentioned we don't use 10% of our brains, rather only .01%. He was quoting someone. The 10% idea has been proven false, rather I believe 100% of the brain is used, correct?

  Sorry for the grammer...posting this quickly.
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  SixofNine

  yeah, just like chickens and goats and monkeys and plants; all living things made to live forever. There is not a big enough :eyeroll: icon in all of internet land for this idiotic argument. To think I believed it and parroted it is enough to cause depression.

  And yes, you are correct, the 10%ofthebrain idea was proven false long ago.
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  Lady Liberty

  Dear Mavie,

  Interesting post. And a interesting comment you made regarding the renewal of cells in animals. I had never thought about it before. But you are right! Thanks for sharing. Just another subject that is taught as fact, that doesn't make any sence when you look at it from the prospective that you did! A logical one!!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
• 

  kid-A

  Ah yes, the cellular immortality theory from the Watchtower Professors. This is perhaps one of the most idiotic fallacies ever promulgated by the JWs.

  First, cells most certainly do not have infinite capacity for renewal. It is well established that cells have a built in mechanism that produces progressive shortening of telomeres with each phase of cellular division. Eventually, this leads to genomic cleavage during mitosis, which triggers cellular apoptosis; i.e. the cell ages, and dies, as every cell in our body will eventually do. This is a completely normal and universal phenomenon. In fact, apoptosis and cellular death is essential for normal development! Our neuronal networks can only mature and develop through a process of neuronal pruning: neurons die and are replaced by migrating neuronal pathways leading to the establishment of appropriate cortical connections. Even 'stem cells' eventually degrade through the life of the organism and this cellular aging is hardwired into the very molecular machinery of the nucleus.

  The statement "scientists are puzzled as to why humans die" is typical watchtower lying and distortion in order to push their own fallacious arguments. Cells die, organs decay, people die. Its as natural a process as life and death itself.
• 

  mavie

  That was an interesting post Kid-A. I was wondering if you can provide some information to me for further research on this issue.

  Mavie (The Eraser)
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  kid-A

  Mavie, if you have access to medline, this is a good reference for review:

  Or see this link for an introduction to the field: http://www.dnafiles.org/about/pgm13/topic2c.html

  Br J Biomed Sci. 1998 Sep;55(3):221-5.

  The role of telomeres in ageing and cancer.
  
  Mera SL .
  
  Faculty of Health and Environment, Leeds Metropolitan University, England, UK.
  
  Telomeres are regions of DNA that cap the ends of linear chromosomes. In somatic cells the telomeres shorten progressively with every cell division, reducing the number of tandem repeat sequences. Eventually the chromosomes become unstable and the cell is no longer able to replicate. This represents an inherent biological clock in which the somatic cell has only a finite capacity for division. In contrast, germ cells do not undergo telomeric shortening and have relatively unlimited capacities for cell division. The difference is that germ cells retain the enzyme telomerase which is able to restore the telomere ends that are lost during cell division. Although telomerase activity is absent in most somatic cells, cancer cells acquire the ability to activate the enzyme, ensuring their immortal growth characteristics and selective advantage over normal somatic cells.
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  CyrusThePersian

  
  Hi!

  As for the 10% of the brain malarky check this link:

  http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

  A possible objection to the idea of humans living forever is our teeth. We only have one set of permanent adult teeth. if we lose those, due to accident, decay or just plain wear, they are gone forever. If we were meant to live forever, why didn't God design us with teeth that grow back? If God gives us the ability to live forever in the future he will have to radically redesign the skulls of the Armageddon survivors and their offspring to accomodate new teeth to replace those that wear out.

  CyrusThePersian
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  mavie

  Thanks for the links Kid-A.

  Cyrus, first time I've heard your line of reasoning. I think the JW answer would be along the lines of "Jehovah can accomplish all things, new lasting teeth would be a minor fix".
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  free2beme

  If there is anything the universe proves by example, more then anything, it is that life has a beginning and an end. Whether it be something as small as a one celled being, to something as large as a galaxy. Nothing would benefit from never dying, and never changing, as that would be unhealthy to everything else that depends on their death for life. Meaning, we die and other animals die, and there are bugs, plants, etc. that live to dispose of the dead. So what to be made of them? Would Jehovah do away with these forms of life in the new system, when death ends? If you ask me, the desire to not die is a self preservation instinct in life to make sure we do not spend our day playing on train tracks without the common sense to get out of the way. Survival of the species! Also, on a metaphysical level, perhaps it is the desire of the life force to know it is part of something far larger and less limited then the physical, coming through. Either way, if you only used ten percent of you brain, why does it cause brain damage when you damage any part of it? Why? Because you use all of it.
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  CyrusThePersian

  Cyrus, first time I've heard your line of reasoning. I think the JW answer would be along the lines of "Jehovah can accomplish all things, new lasting teeth would be a minor fix".

  This is true, a miracle working God could change things. However, the thrust of the talk is that humans were DESIGNED to live forever from the beginning and that simply isn't true and our teeth are proof.

  CyrusThePersian