Crisis of Conscience quotes and publications needed

Calliope

So i've basically apostasized to a wit-friend who thinks i'm spiritually lost (i've been deliberately fading for nearly a year).
She has invited me to share with her my questions and doubts (i didn't confirm that my questions had already been answered or that all my doubts have been dispelled) in attempt to provide me with evidence.
The only one i have shared thus far is about 607BCE. So she has asked me to provide her with secular evidence that would support the error of this date.
It appears that a friend of mine has whisked my CoC book from my home and i was going to extrapolate the quotes and publications from there.
If any of you have it handy, can you let me know which books R. Franz used?

I've perused the beliefs and doctrine threads, but it was getting a lil' tedious.

thanks muchly,

Cal.

Terry

Simple really.

Go to any library with your friend. Find any reference book.

Look up the fall of Jerusalem.

There must be over 300 reference books out there.

Not one book will agree with the Watchtower.

Ask your friend why and then just leave her to answer that. No need to pile on "other" extraneous issues.

Every JW I've ever confronted dodges this and tries to change the subject.

Don't let your friend wiggle out of it. "He that is faithful in what is least is faithful in much. He that is unfaithful in what is least (the date 607 b.c.e. is unfaithful in much.

It becomes obvious that the JW's ARE FORCED TO USE A DATE NOBODY ELSE HAS BECAUSE THEY ARE STUCK WITH A DOCTRINE THAT REQUIRES 1914 TO BE THE END OF THE GENTILE TIMES. So, what they do is LIE!

Confession

Hi, Calliope... It's funny how some things will strike one person powerfully--but not others, and vice-versa. Your reference to 607BCE brought me to CoC, pages 259 & 260. After being faced with the likelihood that 1914 was not a year to which the Bible pointed, the Governing Body met...

At the discussion's end, with the exception of a few members, the Body members indicated that they felt that 1914 and the teaching about "this generation" tied to it should continue to be stressed. The Writing Committee Coordinator, Lyman Swingle, commented, "All right, if that is what you want to do. But at least you know that as far as 1914 is concerned, Jehovah's Witnesses got the whole thing--lock, stock and barrel--from the Second Adventists."
Perhaps one of the most disturbing things to me was knowing that, while the organization urged the brothers to maintain unwavering trust in the interpretation, there were men in responsible positions within the organization who had themselves manifested that they did not have full confidence in the predictions based on the 1914 date.
As a notable example, at the time of the February 19, 1975, session, in which the Governing Body listened to Fred Franz's taped talk on 1975, there followed some discussion about the uncertainty of time prophecies. Nathan Knorr, then the president, spoke up and said:
"There are some things I know--I know that Jehovah is god, that Christ Jesus is his Son, that he gave his life as a ransom for us, that there is a resurrection. Other things I'm not so certain about. 1914--I don't know. We have talked about 1914 for a long time. We may be right and I hope we are."

Apostate Kate

I find the explanation for 607 starting on page 175 of the newest renovation of C of C.

Have you printed off the UN statement? That has been a great place to start for me anyways. I remember as a child being denied the opportunity to be a Brownie Scout and be in after school clubs, to fin out they were an NGO had an impact on me even though I was already out. It just showed me how wicked the whole organization is.

Calliope

see, i can't do something so "blatant" as the UN document.
she thinks what i am suffering from is "spiritual neglect" - o woe is me...
so i want to play on that and offer her something like
"see 607BCE? no evidence. see 587BCE, overwhelming evidence...".

Cal.

Confession

Gotcha, Cal... Just go here and read Honesty's recent post about just what you're looking for...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/114988/2.ashx

Best,

Confession

Calliope

PERRRRRFECT!
thanks for the link.
cal.

under_believer

Hey Terry, if I send you money, will you stop throwing all the crazy formatting into your posts?

AK - Jeff

My suggestion was identical to Confession's - Honesty's post proves it with Watchtower publications - even a dub should accept that.

Beware though - they have found ways to bypass even that reasoning at times.

You might want to contact Freedomlover - just a thought - [Freedomlover, forgive my forwardness in this matter please, but I know you have a wealth of ino in this regard.] - this was the precise issue that aided her out of the borg., done very subtly by her husband over time.

Jeff

jwfacts

If you show her COC you will be d/f for apostasy.

To be safe tell her to do the research. Say that every single book and encyclopedia you have looked in says it was 587/6. You can not find anything to support 607 except the Watchtower publications. That way it will not make you look so bad, and it will get her working, which is far more effective in training her mind.

Crisis of Conscience quotes and publications needed

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