by jwfacts 6 Replies latest watchtower bible
The current doctrine is that the Other Sheep are JWs with an earthly hope. However the reference is quite obviously to Gentiles, as believed by Christians in general. What was Russells view?
Was it Rutherford that came up with the idea that the Other Sheep were secondary Watchtower followers?
Didn't that whole idea come after Russell with Rutherford when the doors to heaven were closed? (when their numbers got to be too many)
While the WTS now considers the "other sheep" and the "great crowd" to be synonymous, the "great multitude" or "great company" was considered to be a secondary heavenly class who did not qualify to be kings and priests but assisted the little flock like the Levites assisted the priests.
Looking at CTR's comments it seems that the "other sheep" were those not being gathered out during his time, just the "little flock," and that the separating of the sheep and the goats would take place during the Millennial age on earth. These people would be the "other sheep."
Here are some comments on the "other sheep" in Russell's day.
Other sheep -- There are two classes of sheep: obedient ones, easily led by the voice of the shepherd, and a more listless and somewhat wayward class who need some driving and guiding with the crook. R1648:2
Others who will become the Lord's followers under different conditions and a different call. R4784:3
These other sheep will include all of mankind who, during the Millennial Kingdom, will be glad to avail themselves of the great provision the Lord has made for them in his plan. R5694:1, 5490:6, 4940:6, 4157:5, 3528:3, 2442:1, 1919:1, 1648:2, 1374:5, 655:1; NS272:6
These other sheep are particularly mentioned by our Master in the parable of the Sheep and the Goats in Matt. 25:31-46. R4784:6, 3528:3, 2606:6, 701:2; NS181:5, 272:6
"Israel after the flesh" will not be neglected; for though of another flock, they are under the same shepherd. R633:5
While this may be particularly applicable to the sheep of the next age, it may not be amiss to apply it now to those who are received from amongst the Gentiles. R4732:6
The view that we who are of the Gentiles or "other sheep" mentioned are now being brought into the one fold is not correct. We were not the Lord's sheep at all at the time of this parable. R3528:2
Not of this fold -- Not of the Little Flock of this Gospel age. R3268:3
They will be of a different nature from the flock which the Lord is selecting during this Gospel age. R5694:1, 5491:1
He has not yet begun to bring the other sheep; he is still taking the flock he first started to call, namely, spiritual Israel. NS412:2
The entire Millennial age will be required for the finding of the Lord's true sheep amongst the world of mankind. R3528:3, 3268:3
At that time the present flock will have passed beyond the veil into the Kingdom and its full glories. R4158:5, 2673:6
The Lord intends to use the very elect Little Flock of this Gospel age to carry his mercy and favor to all, and to give them an opportunity of becoming members of the human flock. R4158:6; NS412:6
One fold -- In the Revised Version and Diaglott: "one flock." R4159:1
The two flocks will come back into harmony with God, but the one flock will be of the heavenly fold while the other flock will be of the earthly fold. NS412:6; R4732:6
Eventually all of God's creatures on various planes of being shall be recognized as one family of God. R3268:6
The flock will be one, but the sheep will be of various natures on various planes of being. R4159:4, 4940:6
But neither should we forget that God has other sheep, not of this flock; and that he has provided that the fullest degree of natural evidence shall be given to those other sheep, the faithful of whom shall have everlasting life also, though on a lower plane or nature than the little flock now being selected, who are required to walk, if at all, by faith and not by sight. R1467, page 335
GREAT MULTITUDE OR COMPANY
Who do not prove sufficiently zealous to be counted with Jesus as "more than conquerors," who, nevertheless will prove not unfaithful in their final test. R4998:1; Q604:T,1
Those loyal, but not promptly obedient, children of God, overcharged, with zeal not according to knowledge, and more or less contaminated with the spirit of the world. D578; C364
This Great Company fails to maintain its place in the elect, because of insufficient zeal for the Lord, the Truth and the brethren--because they are partly "overcharged with the cares of this life." (Luke 21:34) Nevertheless they are loyal to the Redeemer and have not denied his name or his work. F169; R5532:6
Their love and zeal are not such as impel them to perform the sacrificing they covenanted to do. They fail to put, or keep, their sacrifices on the altar. They fail to overcome. F127, 93; Q604:1 Who will have life on the spirit plane. R5138:1, 2067:4
They will have everlasting life as angels have it, but will lose the prize of immortality. A214; R281:4
Who will come to spiritual conditions, but through great tribulation. R428:4, 355:6
I know of no scriptures which teach that any but the Little Flock or Bride company, and the company who come out of the great tribulation, will ever be given spiritual bodies. R37:6
Antitypical Levites, associates and servants of the Royal Priesthood. They will receive directions from the priesthood and will be teachers of the people. R5418:6, 5066:5, 4757:5, 4579:1, 4537:4; CR80:5; SM636:2, 637:T The scapegoat class of Lev. 16, who must suffer destruction of the flesh. R4652:1, 5138:1, 4273:3, 4035:4, 3868:2
I find this a helpful website
http://www.ctrussell.us/ctrussell/ctrussell.nsf/All?OpenView
(when their numbers got to be too many)
I learned this wasn't the reason for the shift from this forum.
I know there is at least one thread explaining this, will search.
Thanks Blondie, exactly what i needed.
Carla that is a common misconception. Rutherford did not introduce the new teaching of an earthly Great Crowd because the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses was approaching 144,000. With Russell’s understanding any number of Jehovah’s Witnesses was able to go to heaven as part of the heavenly Great Crowd. Rutherford’s teaching that ‘millions now living will never die’ referred to ‘worldly people’ surviving into the paradise earth due to start with the resurrection in 1925. In the 1930’s the Great Crowd started to be described as being on earth. Riches (1936) pp.324, 325 (Rutherford)
“Thus the great multitude is definitely identified, not as a spirit-begotten class whose hopes are for a place in heaven, but a class trusting in the Lord, and who hope for everlasting life on earth..." It appears that moving the Great Crowd to earth was to support Rutherford’s concept of narrow salvation. To make survival at Armageddon contingent on being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was the most effective way to rapidly grow Watchtower followers. With the anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses going to heaven and a Great Crowd of Jehovah’s Witnesses surviving onto earth, the only option for the rest of the world was eternal destruction. This concept worked; between 1935 and 1975 the Watchtower Society was one of the fastest growing religions on earth.
Thanks for correcting me, hard to keep track of all of it. Especially because the misconception is printed in various places. Let's see if I have current thinking right- as a non jw it would be best if I kick the bucket before the big A then I will have a 'chance' after the big A to accept jw teachings. If I do not accept jw teachings and the big A comes I will have no chance of coming back for the 1000 years of jw teachings and testing and then final (final, final last judgement) judgement. Just how many 'judgements' are there for an individual? In my mind it looks like this- one when you die (pre armageddon) if God chooses to 'remember' you, one at armageddon to see if you are worthy of living the 1000 year teaching/testing time, then comes the final one at THE judgement day? Now, if armageddon comes and you have rejected the wt you don't have a snowball's chance... Of course all this flies in the face of the recent interview with Brown but not with previous wt literature.
So, what about the jw's who currently pick and choose which teachings they believe? Are they not required (in print? baptismal questions?) to accept ALL that the fds provides?
You are right Carla, the teaching is crazy. I know JWs that hope their children die before Armageddon so they can get a resurrection. What a sick way to have to live. At times it has been said that a disfellowshipped person will not get a resurrection even if they do die before Armageddon. My brother in law has resigned himself to never seeing his grandfather again, as he was on the anointed but died in a d/f state.
