GENTILE TIMES and the (?) End of Pure Worship(?)

by Terry 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry
    Terry

    According to Watchtower theory (i.e. orthodoxy) the Gentile times began when Jerusalem was destroyed and sacrifices to Jehovah ceased because there was no way to observe the ritual temple sacrifices. Hence, true religion ceased and Gentile domination began.

    The importance of Israel as a people was the pure religion and its correct observance through the priesthood for forgiveness of national and individual sins. Without the proper rituals and priests Israel became as other nations.

    The date attributed to the commencement of the Gentile domination is given by the Watchtower Society as 607 b.c.e.

    The relative merits of the date 607 b.c.e. can be debated till the cows come home. There is another way to refute the Gentile times beginning. That is by attacking the veracity of the theory itself in terms of the end of temple ritual sacrifices according to law. DID THEY END when Jerusalem was destroyed, or not?

    Let us look at what history tells us....

    1.Alexander the Great founded Alexandria in Egypt in 331 b.c.e. This became a Greek city in an Egyptian world. Alexandria was the center of learning and commerce before too long. As a metropolitan city it welcomed men of learning throughout the world. This would eventually include a great many prominent Jews.

    2.With the death of Alexander, his general Ptolemy received Egypt and began the Ptolemic dynasty of kings and queens. It lasted until the death of queen Cleopatra (VII) by suicide in the time of Julius Caesar and Marc Antony. (60 b.c.e.)

    (Another of Alexander's generals, Seleucis, received Syria and ruled at Antioch.)

    Into this cosmopolitan Alexandria the largest Jewish community of any city in the Roman empire beyond the bounds of Israel grew.

    Let us take a look at that community. It will strongly figure in our eradication of the Watchtower theory of the end of proper ritual sacrifice at a Jewish temple by the approved priesthood.

    Around 300,000 Jews lived in Egypt: half resided in the provincial cities or as landowners in the country. The other half lived in Alexandria.

    These were prestigious Jews. They were allowed to operate semi-independantly and did not live as in a Ghetto situation like the others.

    They had a presidency of an ethnarch and they ran their own courts. As an example of their influence, power and favor we have only to cite this example. Under Ptolemy VI and Cleopatra II (2 b.c.e.) the administration of all Egypt, control of the army and navy was given to two Jews named Dositheus and Onias.

    Jewish generals served Pharoahs as far back as the 7th century b.c.e. (Jeremiah himself mentions the Jewish colonies in Memphis [capitol at the time] and sites in Upper and Lower Egypt as well.) Jeremiah 44:1

    Importantly, according to papyrus documents, a Jewish military colony was established and thriving on Elephantine Island. (Near the modern city of Aswan). In the 5th century b.c.e. it was guarding the sourthern frontier of Egypt.

    This colony included a township of soldiers and their families who were given land on which to live at the end of active duty. There was a fortress and a customs post included.

    Side by side there were two temples. One temple was Egyptian and the other was:

    A TEMPLE TO JEHOVAH presided over by true Zadokite priests. (Authentic descendants and true heirs of the Levitical priests or the "sons of Zadok" of Ezekiel 44:15-16.

    These are the priests which are said to have had Jehovah's permission to enter into the divine presence in order to perform the ceremonies of the sacred liturgy.

    Archaeologists working on the site have been finding ostraca which held Aramaic texts recording Jewish names and streets.

    Why is this important?

    When the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in the 6th century b.c.e. and the population taken in captivity to Babylon it was the temple on Elephantine Island which was the SOLE FUNCTIONING JEWISH TEMPLE conducting the required ritual sacrifices under an approved priesthood!

    This puts to bed the Watchtower conceit about true worship being trampled in 607b.c.e in a way which does not even require the usual debates about scholar's king lists.

    The remains of the large Jewish community there are still being excavated by a German archaelogical school in Cairo. The official accounts seek to downplay the Jewish element while the on site archeologists are more forthcoming.

    When tensions arose between the local Jews and the temple worshippers at the nearby Egyptian temple of the god Khnum during the time of Darius (522-486) there was an eventual clash and conflagration. The Jewish temple was damaged, but rebuilt. Finally, around 401 b.c.e. another clash ended the temple service. Egypt threw off the yoke of the Persians and a new pharoah commenced rule. A national Egyptian resurgence ensured little tolerance for the continuation of Jewish temple worship from that date.

    As an interesting side note, the Dead Sea Scrolls community is thought to be the stragglers from the Elephantine Island community of Zadokite priests.

    In conclusion we see yet another nail in the coffin of Watchtower befuddlement on their unsupportable doctrines about Gentile times leading to 1914.

    Naturally, any who disagree with official Watchtower pronouncements are labeled as "apostates".

    From Wikipedia:

    The Watchtower, April 1, 1982, p. 27. In The Watchtower of July 15, 1992, the Witnesses are even urged to "hate" such "apostates ... with a complete hatred." (Page 12) This was not just an accidental "slip of the pen". The exhortation was repeated in The Watchtower of October 1, 1993. Former members, who have broken the ties with the Watch Tower organization because they can no longer endorse all its claims and teachings, are not only classified as evil "apostates" but also as "enemies of God", who are "intensely hating Jehovah". They are stated to be so "rooted in evil" that "wickedness has become an inseparable part of their nature". Christians, therefore, "must hate" them and ask God to kill them. (Page 19) As such rancorous attacks on former members of the movement reflect an attitude that is exactly the reverse to that recommended by Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5:43-48), it may be asked why the Watch Tower Society finds it necessary to resort to such malignant language. The answer is obvious to every informed and attentive observer. The leaders of the movement know very well that if the facts about their "Bible chronology", for instance, that have caused thousands of members to turn their back on the Watch Tower organization in recent years, find their way to the Witnesses in general, great numbers would lose confidence in the organization and its leadership. In order to safe-guard the elevated position they claim for themselves, the leaders of the organization are forced to prevent the Witnesses from learning these facts. The method resorted to is an old and well-tried one in authoritarian organizations throughout the centuries. Dissident members are excommunicated ("disfellowshiped") as heretics ("apostates"), slandered, defamed and isolated. The Witnesses are taught that it is a "deadly sin" to talk to them and read their books and that hatred is the true Christian attitude toward them. In this way it is hoped that embarrasing information can be withheld from the Witnesses. Thus truth has become a dangerous threat to the Watch Tower Society these days. Although this organization uses the word "Truth" more often than most other organizations on earth, truth has, in fact, become the worst enemy of the movement.

    Terry Walstrom

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Dear Terry,

    Since I left the witnesses in Aug., I've come to have a different idea of the gentile times... I think it is the period of time when God opened the door to the gentiles...starting with Cornelius, the Roman Centurian.. And it will end, probably when Jesus takes the rule of the Earth... This idea makes alot more sense to me. What do you think?

  • Terry
    Terry

    I personally am struck by the size of the delusion from start to finish.

    It is like the plot of one of the more bizarre James Bond films.

    People have swallowed this fantasy whole and reeled about like dizzy drunkards as a result.

    Whomever shaped these scriptures into such a popular scenario should have had Hollywood contracts.

    To say it is all "stuff and nonsense", however, doesn't really do justice to the eager willingness of the collective consciousness

    to jump on and ride the bucking bull of prophetic vapidity until they land on their collective arses.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    A little reseach reveals just how sectarian the Jewish priesthoods were. The Qumran community felt the priesthood functioning in Jerusalem was apostate and illegitamate. The Hasmonaean rulers had instituted it, not Moses. Yet the Gospels, being it's writers were either unaware of the controversy surrounding the Jerusalem priestshood or were of the camp that supported them, depicted Jesus as worshipping there.

    The "trampling" of Jerusalem and the "times for the gentiles" clearly in context refer to the Roman attacks of 70 (or possibly 135) and were believed would end when the Jewish state was eestablished under Jesus. There was no connection with 587. It seems to me to be a fossil within the text, reflecting an early Jewish Christian belief. It possibly was not edited out, and repeated by writer of Luke, because of its ambiguity.

    There were a number of chronological speculations in the air using different dates and formulas the Qumran Damascus Document interpreted Ez. 4 as promising a restoration of the legitamate priesthood around 190 BC, ending a "period of wrath". When nothing happened for 20 years (groping for answers, below) an entrepreneuring leader told them to wait another 40 years in the desert.

    In the era of wrath--three hundred and ninety years at the time He handed them over the power of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon--He took care of them and caused to grow from Israel and from Aaron a root of planting to inherit His land and to grow fat on the good produce of His soil. They considered their iniquity and they knew that they were guilty men, and had been like the blind and like those groping for the way twenty years. But God considered their deeds, that they had sought Him with a whole heart. So He raised up for them a teacher of righteousness to guide them in the way of His heart (CD 1:5-11).

    Funny how all this seems so familiar.
  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Wheres Scholar?

    Interesting point. But didn't the appointed times of the nations start with Lifting off the Turban, or the ending of the kings? That said, I can not understand why Daniel 4 and the Seven times is even considered an end time prophecy.

  • Terry
    Terry

    All this can only be viewed with some measure of sanity if the process of presentation is understood.

    Neither Jews nor Christians nor anybody else walked around with a bible in their pocket.

    This is a modern day conceit.

    People led their lives scratching out a living. They were very busy making ends meet. The thing that kept them going was a deep-seated belief things

    would eventually get much better for them if they could hang on.

    It is normal to look forward to better times. It is survival oriented to do so.

    How people create a future is largely a matter of information combined with imagination.

    Among the Jews there were two elements which were in conflict.

    1.Jews "knew" they were special. They were chosen by God. A blessing was in store for them. Better times were promised. (The National Myth told them so.)

    2.Reality kept intruding on their dream. The nation was constantly on the downside of events. Somebody's heel was always on their neck.

    Retelling and reshaping of the promises and prophecies TO FIT current needs and history became necessary to keep hope alive.

    It was during the writing down and redaction process of honing Scripture that this could be accomplished.

    Pious lies did the trick. EVERYTHING seemingly keeping them down was merely an outworking of God's plan. Fudging a fact or two here and there did the trick.

    If it could be demonstrated (at least on parchment or papyrus) that seemingly-oppressive events were ACTUALLY A WORKING OUT OF GOD'S PROMISES then, there would be reason to keep holding on and waiting for the Happy Ending.

    This is so very much like what Jehovah's Witnesses do it sends a nostalgic chill up my spine!

    1.JW's reinterpret scriptures willy-nilly and APPLY PROPHECIES TO THEMSELVES to give a sense of high importance to their mundane affairs.

    2.Prophecy's are always interpreted as IMPENDING and due to FULFILLMENT soon.

    3.Significant world events are made to fit into the jigsaw puzzle of Prophecy fulfillment. Almost anything happening in the news PROVES the reward is near.

    For the ancient Jews the constant reinterpretation amounted to reshaping of clay into first this and then that vessel to fit the daily need. The same clay was used over and over: We are the Chosen People. If things are bad; we brought it on ourselves.

    The National Myth gave this ethnic minority with grandiose sensibilities a real boost in self-esteem. Just as modern day Jehovah's Witnesses think highly of themselves as playing a major role in World Events the myth must constantly be revised, reformed and retold with a spin. Call it New Light or call it bald-faced lying: the psychological need is all-important.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Interesting point. But didn't the appointed times of the nations start with Lifting off the Turban, or the ending of the kings? That said, I can not understand why Daniel 4 and the Seven times is even considered an end time prophecy.

    I can still remember thinking how very bizarre it was that Jehovah sadly caved in when Israel demanded a human king over them.

    God scuffs his toe in the dirt and pouts, but, after a sulky warning goes along to get along.

    Jehovah needed a little backbone here, don't you think?

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