by Stealth453 4 Replies latest jw friends
My father is a hard-core dub, that believes that everything on these (apostate) sites, is information taken out of context.
I need to show him that the wt gang take almost every thing they quote out of context, especially when it comes to bible vs.watchtower quotes.
If you can provide specifics, I would really appreaciate it.
Thanks, Stealth453
Give him a quote, tell him what publication it is in and what page. Let him look it up in his WT library, hard copy or CD or the WT library. No point in printing out another publication for him.
Blondie
One of the biggest occasions I noticed for JWs to take things out of context is their speical assembly days and conventions. I attended this years convention and was blown away how many times they will take a Bible scripture out of context. I would say it is at least 60-80% of the time.
An examlple is how they discussed the 'celestial' phenomanon in Matthew Chapter 24. They made mention that this is going to be the signal for Armageddeon. When you actually read the verse though you see Jesus is actually talking about when he returns and gathers togeather his church. But the guy giving the (scripted) talk didn't make mention that this verse had anything to do with Jesus, he simply stated that it was about 'Jehovah's Day'
Another good point is with John 17:3. 'Taking in Knowledge of You' is not the correct translation. Any other Bible is going to say something like "that they might know you". Coming to know God and 'Taking in Knowledge' are two totally differant things. They change the Bible to make it appear that we need to be part of the WT 'spiritual' feeding program.
It is easy for him to say that, but how many apostate sites has he read? Ask him to provide you with some examples. Give him Crisis of Conscience and ask which parts are wrong. OR print out http://jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm and say what is out of context.
For me the first time I noticed the misinformation of the Watchtower was accidently when researching earthquakes after the Tsunami. It really was the stick that broke this camels back. The information is here. http://jwfacts.com/index_files/earthquakes.htm
The society has regularly quoted figures to prove an extremely significant increase in earthquakes since 1914, so suggest he goes to any encyclodedia, or call any seismology lab and see if this is so. Without exception every source will tell him that there has been no increase in earth quakes for 1000's years. Now look at what the Watchtower publications say;
Survival into a New Earth (1984) p.23
“The frequency of major earthquakes has increased about 20 times what it was on an average during the two thousand years before 1914.”
Insight Into the Scriptures volume 1 p.669
“Jesus foretold earthquakes in significant number and intensity as a feature of the sign of his presence. (Mt 24:3, 7, 8; Lu 21:11) Since 1914 C.E., there has been an increase in the number of earthquakes, resulting in much distress. With data obtained from the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, supplemented by a number of standard reference works, a tabulation was made in 1984 that included only earthquakes that measured 7.5 or more on the Richter scale, or that resulted in destruction of five million dollars (U.S.) or more in property, or that caused 100 or more deaths. It was calculated that there had been 856 of such earthquakes during the 2,000 years before 1914. The same tabulation showed that in just 69 years following 1914 there were 605 of such quakes. These statistics are a means of indicating the extent of suffering from earthquakes during this period of history.” (requoted in Reasoning from the Scriptures 1989 p.236)
The study is an interesting one as it was tabulated by the Watchtower Society but sounds like it came from the Geophysical Data Center. The result is both inaccurate and biased. Firstly, it is impossible to know how many 7.5 or more earthquakes were before 1914, as seismology was not invented until the 1700’s, and records are based on scattered pieces of uncovered history for the 2000 years prior. Based an archaeological reports there are estimates but they will never be complete. How can anyone claim to know how many earthquakes caused 100 or more deaths from 2000 years ago, most villages affected no longer exist, and there is certainly no database where all the deaths were recorded. The third figure of $5 million dollars is meaningless in any world when people had no cars, electricity, and generally lived in what we would term sheds by today’s world. How many dollars worth of damage would a camp of Aboriginal humpies sustain in an earthquake, and can you honestly believe that if 100 Aboriginals were killed in an earthquake 500 years ago we have any record that an earthquake even occurred. Most disturbing though is that not only is the test unrealistic but the figures are grossly wrong.
If you add up the number of deaths from earthquakes in the Britanica, there were more deaths in the 1200's than in the 1900's.
Drew is right, jw's use most scripturs complete out of context. The scriptures at John 17:3 is talking about knowing Christ, and if it is read from other bibles that becomes clear. Also the whole chapter 17 is about knowing Jesus and knowing his Father. It wasn't about opening a book and knowing Jesus. There were no books then, only the Hewbrew writings. Another thought is that all Jewish children learned and memorized the Torah or the 1st 5 books of the bible. It was only if they were really good that the boys went on to learn the rest of the Hebrew writings, and eventually became a Rabbi. So the importance was knowing Jesus and what he preached and that was done by word of mouth before the individual books of the NT were written.
Think for a moment. Did you know that Apostle Pauls letters came before there were even the Gospels? Yes they were written later by unknown writers. Their given those names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and attributed so that people would believe they are sacred. The thing is when Paul says in 2 Tim 3:16 says all scriptures is inspired and benefitial for teaching he wasn't talking about the New Testement, it didn't exsist then. So the scriptures he was refering to were only the Hebrew scriptures. So what was Paul encouraging, certainly not following books that didn't exsist in his day.
Get a book called "Who Wrote The New Testement?" by Burton Mack You will learn a lot about how we today came to have the book we call the bible today.
Here is how Jewish children were educated in Jesus society he grew up in:
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Between the ages of 4-6 all children including girls enrolled in (Beth Sefer) Elementary School. The first day of class theRabbi would ask each child to hold up their slate. Then he would cover it completely with honey, (which was asign of God’s favor). Honey was the most extravagant, enjoyable, pleasurable thing.Then he would say, “My pupil, lick off the honey. May you never forget the Word of God is like honey. Taste and see that the Word is good.” Quoting Ezekiel who said the Word is sweet like honey. This left a powerful impression, linking Scripture with pleasure.
From the ages
6-10 , they spent their time memorizing the Torah (The first 5 books of Moses, Gen. Exo. Levit. Numb. & Duet.). Memorizing every word by age ten. Now you may be thinking, oh our kids could never memorize that much text today. But I’m here to tell you, children can memorize a lot at that age when its something they love. Love of the Torah was especially part of the jewish culture. Our memorization abilities aren’t any different today, just our focus and priorities.*
From the age of 10-14 advanced students amoung the boys only went on to (Beth Talmud) and memorized the rest of the Hebrew Scriptures, right up through Malachi. Not only did they learn the text, but they learned a process of questioning and answering that demonstrated to the Teacher they could understand and interact with the text.Boys who didn’t make the cut during this level stayed home to help out around the house and learn a trade and by 13 girls were generally given in marriage.
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But the best of the best from the teenage boys from this school went on at age 14 to (Beth Midrash). Here they continued studying,learning application and interpretation. The most outstanding of these students sought permission to study with a famous Rabbi. These students were called (talmid in Hebrew) which is translated, “disciple.” A group of them were called (talmidim) disciples (plural).Just a little history to make the bible more understandable.
Balsam
