"A Victim of the Delusion"

by scout575 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • scout575
    scout575


    "I regard most church leaders however as simply the victims of the Christian delusion. I believe the delusion comandeers the leaders' rational faculties and shields itself from the light of reason. I regard myself as formerly a victim of the delusion, and I regard you as still a victim of the delusion.

    If I regarded you as undeluded then I would have animosity toward you for knowingly manipulating people with falsehood. I hope that the impact of the loss of my faith will put a chink in the armour of your delusion, and ultimately liberate you from its repressive control. After the difficult transition period, life really is better this side of Christianity."

    The above is part of a letter, written by a newly exited Christian, to his former Pastor. His whole deconversion story ( along with many other Christian decoversion stories, including those of some ex-JWs ), can be found at a website entitled, 'Deconversion stories from Biblical errancy'. The above poster has the initials JB. If you're an exiting JW thinking about joining a different church, please check out this site.

  • Perry
    Perry


    Scout,

    Tell us about yourself. How long in the borg? Why did you leave? Fade or DF? Were you an Elder? Pioneer? M.S. Family still in? Family out? Just curious.

  • scout575
    scout575

    Perry: Thanks for your genuine interest. I was in the 'truth' for many, many years, but eventually disassociated myself for the same reason as the above poster. Unlike him however, I don't regard myself as a victim of the delusion. Although my posts may sometimes give the impression that I regard Christianity and the Bible as worthless, this is far from the case. It clearly 'works' for many people. I too enjoyed being a Christian, savoured the studying of the Bible, delighted in my 'relationship' with God, and took alot of pleasure in giving talks to the congregation. Just like the above poster though, the delusion that the Bible and Christianity are from God, eventually wore so thin, that I had no choice but to set aside the label of, 'Christian'.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    This idea of "Christianity" sounds like the jw idea of "truth"

  • New Worldly Translation
    New Worldly Translation

    Interesting web site. The link with Dennis Mckinsey's work on looks interesting, I'll have to read through it when I have time.

    IMO those who leave the WT org but join another church or christian group have only made half the journey (maybe the easiest half in some ways?).

    I left the org not because of any particular JW teaching but from reading Thomas Paine, Joseph Wheless, David Hume, Richard Dawkins, Frank Zindler, Robert Ingersoll. That killed two birds with one stone so to speak, the myth of the WT org and the myth of christianity.

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    "I regard most church leaders however as simply the victims of the Christian delusion. I believe the delusion comandeers the leaders' rational faculties and shields itself from the light of reason. I regard myself as formerly a victim of the delusion, and I regard you as still a victim of the delusion.
    If I regarded you as undeluded then I would have animosity toward you for knowingly manipulating people with falsehood. I hope that the impact of the loss of my faith will put a chink in the armour of your delusion, and ultimately liberate you from its repressive control. After the difficult transition period, life really is better this side of Christianity."

    1) When and how did this person get to study enough 'christian leaders' to form his opinion? 2) The rest that follows in ill-logical sequence shows clearly they are not thinking rationally. 'Repressive control' then this person must be totally anarchistic because I don't see this practised at all in the churches that I have been in.
    What I see is people who are in many ways average, including the so-called leaders. Each and every one of them has faults. Now, when you look at the moral lving encouraged by Jesus you will find that the lessons are intended to make us happier and peaceful toward one another. When you look at the life example of Jesus you see a person humble enough to wash the feet of His disciples, bold enough to challenge the legalists of His day, compassionate enough to do all that He could in this life and courageous enough to take all of the wrath of God for all of our sins.
    Sins are simply what we do to hurt others and hurt ourselves. God Himself hung on the cross and took the hit for 'whosoever would believe'. He endured the mocking of others and He endures that even now. It's too bad your own path is so negative and obsessed with your own self-pity. You will find all of that you want in the places that you go.....
    Rex

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    You guys want delusion? You really do need to look at both sides of the issue. Where you spend eternity could be in the balance! Have a nice day!
    Rex

    # If you want to impress people with how good your science is, if you want to get tenure in a modern university, if you want to get a research grant, you can't afford to come and say, 'Well I think this MIGHT be the case BUT there are all sorts of indications here that it MIGHT NOT be the case and it's all sort of confused.' People always tend in science, as elsewhere, to sharpen up and clean up a story... Of course, it's not a fraud, it is part of the general atmosphere in which you're not actually saying to people, tell the truth, tell the whole truth and let it all out." [Leon Kamin of Northeastern University, in "Do Scientists Cheat?", NOVA, Television program #1517 (125 Western Avenue, Boston, Mass. 02134: WGBH Transcripts, Broadcast October 25, 1988), p. 14.]

    # "It doesn't take much to take a little bit of the data, change it the way you want it to look and then publish it - and it's impossible to detect that." [Dr. Bruce Dan, Senior Editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association, in "Do Scientists Cheat?", NOVA, Television program #1517 (125 Western Avenue, Boston, Mass. 02134: WGBH Transcripts, Broadcast October 25, 1988), p. 1.]

    # "The 1980s have witnessed a flurry of scientific fraud and misconduct cases including a number of cases as yet unresolved." [Narrator, "Do Scientists Cheat?", NOVA, Television program #1517 (125 Western Avenue, Boston, Mass. 02134: WGBH Transcripts, Broadcast October 25, 1988), p. 1.]

    # "After the initial inquiry by this committee into this subject [scientific fraud and misconduct in connection with scientific research], the committee has had growing reason to believe that we are only seeing the tip of a very unfortunate, dangerous, and important iceberg." [John Dingell, Chairman of Congressional House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, in "Do Scientists Cheat?", NOVA, Television program #1517 (125 Western Avenue, Boston, Mass. 02134: WGBH Transcripts, Broadcast October 25, 1988), p. 2.]

    # "Yet one recent study has alleged science's quality control mechanisms can't even be counted on to catch simple sloppiness, let alone a clever fraud." [Narrator, "Do Scientists Cheat?", NOVA, Television program #1517 (125 Western Avenue, Boston, Mass. 02134: WGBH Transcripts, Broadcast October 25, 1988), p. 10 of transcript.]

    Biologist and Creationist John Klotz, Ph.D.:

    "It is clear that much of the structure of modern Evolutionary paleontology rests upon assumptions which are by their very nature not capable of verification... There is no disagreement with many of the observations of paleontology, but there may be disagreement with the interpretations which are placed on these observations."

    # Michael J. Mahoney, "Self-Deception in Science," paper presented at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (Philadelphia: May 28, 1986), also published in Origins Research, Vol. 11, No. 1 (Colorado Springs, Colorado: Students for Origins Research, Spring 1988), pp. 1-2, 6-7, 10.

    # Roger Lewin, Bones of Contention: Controversies in the Search for Human Origins (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1987), 348 pp. (challenges the notion that science is synonymous with cool, objective reasoning / documents the personal side of great controversies in paleoanthropology).

    # Daniel Goleman, Vital Lies, Simple Truths: The Psychology of Self-Deception (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1985).

    # Jerry Bergman, The Criterion: Religious Discrimination in America (6245 South Newton Avenue, Richfield, Minnesota 55423: Onesimus Publishing, 1984), 80 pp. (discusses evidence of widespread job discrimination against scientists who seriously question Evolution / reviews evidence of lack of academic freedom).

    # D. Faust, The Limits of Scientific Judgment (Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1984).

    # Wolfgang Smith, Cosmos & Transcendence: Breaking Through the Barrier of Scientistic Belief (P.O. Box 424, Rockford, Illinois 61105: Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., 1984), 168 pp. ("Presents an insider's critique of the scientific world-view based upon the sharp but oft-overlooked distinction between scientific truth and scientistic faith... demonstrates that major tenets promulgated in the name of Science are not in fact scientific truths but rather scientistic speculations - for which there is no evidence at all.").

    William Broad and Nicholas Wade, Betrayers of the Truth: Fraud and Deceit in the Halls of Science (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1982), 256 pp. (shows that science is often much more than a dispassionate quest for truth / examines the kinds of pressures that can lead scientists to stray / documents cases of scientific fraud / challenges the conventional view of science).

    Biologist, geneticist and Creationist John Klotz, Ph.D.:

    "It might also be pointed out that scientists are not quite as objective as they say they are. It is simply not possible for the scientist to detach himself completely from the theories and hypotheses which he espouses. This is particularly true when they are different or new. He finds considerable pride of authorship and an intense personal loyalty to ideas which he has developed. For this reason there is a great deal of subjectivity in science."

    [John W. Klotz, "Assumptions in Science and Paleontology," in Paul A. Zimmerman, editor, Rock Strata and the Bible Record (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1970), pp. 24-39 (quote from p. 25, emphasis added).]

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