I've made a few points to a lot of Witnesses. Sometimes they've listened and sometimes they've moved on, changing the subject.
What Scripture or Good point brought you the most Success?
The least Success?
The reason i ask is because its difficult to trail through all the topics and see what different reactions people got, unless i had AGES!
My current favourite is Luke 21:8 - He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.
This completely describes the Witnesses, i was successful in getting one particular dub, trying to defend the Watchtower. I couldnt believe actually, what they said...
"Jesus said many will come in his name, so therefore its not all. There must be one of them that is right"
Its almost like arguing with Children lol.
Ignoring Scriptures/Good points
by KW13 5 Replies latest jw friends
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KW13
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PrimateDave
The problem is that unless they are doubting, questioning, and wondering already, you won't do much beyond getting them to go on the defensive. How does one keep the defensive barrier down? Arguing about religious dogma is often seen as a personal attack. And people who've been 'attacked' by the Witnesses are most likely to not answer the door or immediately get defensive/argumentative if they can't hide. So, you have to rely on an indirect method to get them to think. Perhaps citing examples of what so-called 'righteous' men did in Biblical times could be a good way to open a door. Personally, I think that 'righteous' Lot is a good example (A drunken man has sex with his own daughters. Try that today and see if anyone in the hall calls you a 'righteous' man!)
Besides, a single scripture cannot undo all the mental manipulation of five meetings a week. Witnesses are of the mindset that if they can't defend their position or refute your point, then all they have to do is look in the WT Library to find an answer. And we know the WTS has heard it all before. They probably have a select few in the Writing Department who monitor boards like this just to come up with counter arguments to questions and problems the R&F may face.
I actually find that it is more 'productive' to tell my new non Witness friends what JWs believe in the most direct way possible. I say things like: "Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Armageddon is almost here, and they think that God is going to kill over 6 billion people because they aren't Witnesses."
Dave -
undercover
a single scripture cannot undo all the mental manipulation of five meetings a week. Witnesses are of the mindset that if they can't defend their position or refute your point, then all they have to do is look in the WT Library to find an answer. And we know the WTS has heard it all before.
Good point. One scripture will not open their eyes...but it can plant that one little seed. Mabye it doesn't even phase them at the moment. But later, something triggers that memory and they give some more thought to it. The seed grows and then more doubts creep in. Over time, all of those little seeds, or doubts become too much to ignore and then boom, next thing ya know, they're questioning everything.
But I love arguing about the creation account and the Adam and Eve story. I mean, hell, if ya can't get past the first three or four chapters of the first book without inconsistencies and problems, what's the point in putting any faith in the rest of it?
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Honesty
I give them these:
Dan 12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, and some to shame and eternal contempt.
John 5:39-40 You pore over the Scriptures because you think you have eternal life in them, yet they testify about Me. And you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
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PrimateDave
Undercover, the creation account is a perfect example in my opinion of the problem with WTS interpretation of the Bible. To them the 'days' of Genesis chapter one are 'figurative', but then the rest of it just has to be taken literally. That turned out to be one of my biggest problems with their so-called scriptural interpretation. Anytime something doesn't quite fit, they try to change the meaning.
Why can't they just admit that the writer (in this case, probably an Aaronid priest in Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah. See Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard E. Friedman.) actually meant literal days? After all, they reject evolution anyway. Why even attempt to fit with the facts of geology?
They can't ever admit to the fact of Evolution because of the psychology of previous investment. They can't make big doctrinal changes even in the face of glaring evidence because they would lose credibility with the current membership. If they had accepted evolution decades ago, they wouldn't look like such idiots today.
Sorry to get OT with this.
Dave -
PrimateDave
{puts JW cap on}Respectfully, Honesty, these scriptures would not make any difference to me as a Witness.
The scripture from Daniel speaks of a resurrection to judgement. Witnesses are familiar with this concept. But first, remember the hard and fast scriptural rule that "he who has died has been acquitted of his sins." Every JW knows that at death sins are 'forgiven'. A person is judged after their resurrection based on their actions after their resurrection. At least that is the understanding. So, you would have to first disprove the doctrine about death erasing sin and justify the convoluted logic that a loving god would resurrect someone just to punish them.
The scripture from John simply wouldn't phase me at all. I would think (remember, Honesty, I'm not trying to be a jerk with this): "This Jesus freak thinks that I don't believe in Jesus, but I do." Make a JW think that you are attacking his belief in Jesus and watch him/her get on the defensive really fast.{takes JW cap off}
Dave