by bjc2read 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
Hello everyone,
At 1 Corinthians 13:9, 10, the apostle Paul said this: "For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with."
My question is this: What do you think Paul was referring to when he said that the "knowledge" that first century Christians possessed was 'partial' and the "prophesying" that they were doing was to be considered 'partial' also?
Any thoughts?
bjc
bttt for the scholarly types here.
Also, just a follow-up thought to go along with the first question:
How do you personally feel the "partial knowledge" and "partial prophesying" that first century christians evidently participated in according to Paul, would effectively in our modern day & age, be "...DONE AWAY WITH"?
Any comments anyone would like to make relative to the above thoughts would be much appreciated.
BTW, thanks for the bump to the top, Serendipity.
bjc
He must have meant the deficit in knowledge that the wtbts would come to fill - all that complete food that the wtbts would come to provide.
seriously - don't ya'll believe me ?
1 Corinthians 13:9-10 For <gar> we know <ginosko> in <ek> part <meros>, and <kai> we prophesy <propheteuo> in <ek> part <meros>. But <de> when <hotan> that which is perfect <teleios> is come <erchomai>, then <tote> that which is in <ek> part <meros> shall be done away <katargeo>.
perfect=teleioV teleios tel'-i-os
from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.
Barnes Commentary;
1Co 13:9
Verse 9. For we know in part. Comp. Cmt. on 1Co 12:27. This expression means, "only in part;" that is, imperfectly. Our knowledge here is imperfect and obscure. It may, therefore, all vanish in the eternal world amidst its superior brightness; and we should not regard that as of such vast value which is imperfect and obscure. Comp. Cmt. on 1Co 8:2. This idea of the obscurity and imperfection of our knowledge, as compared with heaven, the apostle illustrates (1Co 13:11) by comparing it with the knowledge which a child has, compared with that in maturer years; and (1Co 13:12) by the knowledge which we have in looking through a glass--an imperfect medium--compared with that which we have in
looking closely and directly at an object without any medium.
And we prophesy in part. This does not mean that we partly know the truths of religion, and partly conjecture or guess at them; or that we know only a part of them, and conjecture the remainder. But the apostle is showing the imperfection of the prophetic gift; and he observes, that there is the same imperfection which attends knowledge. It is only in part; it is imperfect; it is indistinct, compared
with the full view of truth in heaven; it is obscure; and all that is imparted by that gift will soon become dim and lost, in the superior brightness and glory of the heavenly world. The argument is, that we
ought not to seek so anxiously that which is so imperfect and obscure, and which must soon vanish away; but we should rather seek that love which is permanent, expanding, and eternal.
{a} "in part" 1Co 8:2
Family Bible Notes; 1Co 13:9
We know in part; that is, in our present state. We prophesy in part; we are not capable of either receiving or communicating truth by prophecy, except in a partial and imperfect way.
Geneva Bible Footnotes; 1Co 13:9
4For we know in hpart, and we prophesy in part.
4. The reason: because we are now in the state that we have need to learn daily, and therefore we have need of those helps, that is, of the gift of tongues, and knowledge, and also of those that teach by
them. But to what purpose serve they then, when we have obtained and gotten the full knowledge of God, which serve now but for those who are imperfect and go by degrees to perfection?
h. We learn imperfectly
Jamieson Faucett Brown; 1Co 13:9 9, 10. in part--partially and imperfectly. Compare a similar
contrast to the "perfect man," "the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:11-13).
The People's New Testament; For we know in part, and prophesy in part. A reason why these
gifts should pass away. Our knowledge is now only partial, and the prophecy only gives glimpses. These are all imperfect and fragmentary, and hence must give way to something better.
Abbott; 1Co 13:10. Shall be done away; that is, the uncertain and imperfect attainments made in this life will be superseded by clear and certain knowledge.
Barnes; 1Co 13:10
Verse 10. But when that which is perfect is come. Does come; or shall come. This proposition is couched in a general form. It means that when anything which is perfect is seen or enjoyed, then that
which is imperfect is forgotten, laid aside, or vanishes. Thus, in the full and perfect light of day, the imperfect and feeble light of the stars vanishes. The sense here is, that in heaven--a state of absolute
perfection--that which is "in part," or which is imperfect, shall be lost in superior brightness. All imperfection will vanish. And all that we here possess that is obscure shall be lost in the superior and perfect glory of that eternal world. All our present unsatisfactory modes of obtaining knowledge shall be unknown. All shall be clear, bright, and eternal.
William Burkett; 1Co 13:10
As the imperfect twilight is done away by the opening of the perfect day; so at death, when that which is perfect takes place, then that which was imperfect shall be done away.
Blessed be God for the hopes of that blessed place and state, where all imperfections shall cease, especially the imperfection of our knowledge.
Compliments of Swordsearcher 4.1
Its very hard to be absolutely certain what Paul meant. Verses 4-7 are later interpolations so these have no bearing. Paul seems to be struggling to control the charisma fanatics in Corinth. This appears to have been a local adaptation of the charisma practiced in mystery cults, perhaps as practised by the new converts before hearing of Paul's Christianity. His appeal to them appears to be to pursue love and faith and hope above sensational charisma. Their supposed prophecies "failed" their Gnosis was "imperfect" that is inadaquate, flawed. Paul was in a catch 22, the congo was believing in Paul's religion so he didn't want to simply disparage the gifts they claimed they had received because of it.
It really is hard to try to reconstruct a book that has been heavily edited and was likely a work of subtle irony to begin with.
Hi Paducan:
You made an interesting observation about Jehovah's witnesses today and their misplaced confidence in the teachings of the Watchtower Society today. You said:
He must have meant the deficit in knowledge that the wtbts would come to fill - all that complete food that the wtbts would come to provide.
Actually, this is exactly the way the Watchtower Society described the situation also. They feel the teaching of 1914 itself, is what really sets them apart from all other religions and brings about this "complete understanding" of bible prophecy and holy scripture in our time.
In discussing 1 Corinthians 13:10 the Watchtower Society makes the following comment as shown in the 1975 Watchtower magazine page 96 paragraph 1, saying:
"We today are living in the time when 'that which is complete' is due to arrive. The physical facts in fulfillment of Bible prophecy confirm that Jesus Christ received kingly authority over the world of mankind in 1914 C.E. With that event the "sacred secret" or "mystery" of God was brought to a finish, in the sense that this even removed the mysterious aspect about this kingdom. From that time onward God's people have been experiencing a continued increase in spiritual knowledge and in understanding prophecy. This is in harmony with Daniel 12:4 ... Accordingly, "that which is complete" refers to the full understanding of God's purpose as revealed in the Bible. This being a time for such increased understanding of God's Word and the fulfillment of its prophecies, that 'which is complete' must be at hand."
As shown above, the Watchtower Society teaches the expression "that which is complete" in 1 Corinthians 13:10 refers to the FULL UNDERSTANDING OF GOD'S PURPOSE as revealed in the Bible." And they further explain that all of this [Great Understanding of Scripture] was made possible by their coming to understand the pivotal and hallowed teaching of 1914, as well as other related teachings since that epoch time. Indeed, Jehovah's witnesses believe it was that particular teaching itself, that sets them apart from all other people and religious beliefs of our time, and has led 6 1/2 million Watchtower Adherents to a full and "complete" understanding of scripture today.
So you are right Paducan...that is precisely what the Jehovah's witnesses believe about that passage of scripture.
So since the Watchtower Society puts so much emphasis on the teaching of 1914, even though there is abundant evidence to the contrary, still we can easily see why they (WTBTS) are most unwilling to "see" or acknowledge any possible errors in their sacred understanding of this faulty, "artfully contrived false story" -- the kind first century christians were warned against. -- 2 Peter 1:19
Thanks for your comments...
bjc
Pete:
Well put.
The modern day charismatic movement now uses that scripture as a counter to the cessasionist view, to highlight that those things aren't supposed to be done away with until the end.
As has already been commented on, likely the thrust of the comment seems to be that regardless of what we do now, the future is yet brighter when we pass beyond the vail.
because we are now in the state that we have need to learn daily, they had need of those helps, that is, of the gift of tongues, and knowledge, and also of those that teach by them in order for a fullness of teaching of the Christ. But to what purpose serve they then, when we have obtained and gotten the fullest knowledge of God possible as imperfect humans, which serve now but for those who are imperfect and go by degrees to perfection? We learn imperfectly.
Seemingly we are training to learn the will of GOD and wisdom, however come to the forefront must be love because by this we are saved, a consideration also is , we will be perfect at some stage however we will still be only partially knowledged. The reason is "Unsearchable is the Lord"
hope this makes sense " i dont normally "
Ade
