Convertion of a JW with an intelligent person

by biblexaminer 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • biblexaminer
    biblexaminer

    KN0CK-KNOCK-KNOCK
    ...waiting
    Door opens and a young man steps into the light.

    JW: Good morning.

    Bob: Good morning.

    JW: We are calling on you're neighborhood today and asking people this question "ls religion serving the needs of the people, or are people being used to supply the needs of religion?"

    Bob: That is a good question, but before I attempt to answer that, can you tell me... are you leading up to where you offer me an opportunity to contribute to YOUR church?

    JW: Well ...we leave our literature at no cost, but we do accept modest donations to our worldwide work.

    Bob: Interesting... Well, I don't read your literature anyway, what with it being so distructive of people's faith.

    JW: (puzzled look) What do you mean? The Watchtower seeks to build faith.

    Bob: Really! I have seen many an article that just rips at people's faith structure with articles designed to stumble folkes ...

    JW: I have never seen anything like that in the Watchtower!

    Bob: You want me to believe that you have never read, for instance, a Watchtower article that dredges up the Church's history in onder to stumble God fearing churchers?

    JW: Well, (condescendingly) that's different. There have been a few articles where the Church's activity during the war years is uncovered ...but... (gesture with hand)

    Bob: And you are going to tell me that that kind of stuff isn't designed to be destructive of a person's faith???

    JW: Well... it's not intended to stumble, the Watchtower is just exposing the facts.

    Bob: ...and you don't feel that digging up ugly facts about a person's religion is faith undermining, that it's designed to stumble members of the particular religions discussed?

    JW: NO! (emphatically)

    Bob: Well you are in disagreement with your own religion.

    JW: What'd you mean??

    Bob: When people dig up dirt on YOUR religion, your leaders claim its disruptive of YOUR faith, and that it's designed to stumble YOU!

    JW: WE'RE DIFFERENT! (intensely)

    Bob: Really? How...?

    JW: ...well ...we ...we ...ahh ...we don't ...

    Bob: (interrupting) ...you don't have dirt? Is that what you are groping for?

    JW: Well... no ...we don't... Jehovah's organization is pure!

    Bob: You, of course, mean the Watchtower organization ...

    JW: Yes, and our history is clean because ...we don't get involved ...

    Bob: So, you don't believe that it's possible for someone to tell you something about the history of YOUR religion that would stumble you?

    JW: No!

    Bob: That theory is easily tested. How about the letter J.F. Rutherford wrote to Adolf Hitler where Rutherford schmoozed up to Hitler and made positive statements in favor of the Nazi party, statements that said that the Nazi's and the Watchtower had lot's in common including a dislike for the Jews and the western nations. Wouldn't you be stumbled to find out about that.

    JW: WHAT LETTER? That's a lie!

    Bob: Well. Your leaders really HAVE kept you in the dark. The original letter, rescued from the Nazi archives has been reproduced on the internet along with english and other language translations. Your leaders make no effort to refute it either ...they just paint the internet as evil to keep YOU away from finding out.

    JW: l don't believe you!

    Bob: You have such freedom in your religion, why don't you call your branch office and inquire about it. And while you're at it, ask about the changes made to the procedure for you to ask for money. Ask the branch office to deny, in writing, that it was precipitated by the failure of the Watchtower's court action in defense of Jimmy Swaggart!

    JW: Swaggart?(questioningly)

    Bob: The TV evangelist who was caught with all the hookers...

    JW: The Watchtower would never have anything to do with him!

    Bob: (chuckling) Really! Prove me wrong. Bring me a letter from the branch office denying that they took legal action in the State of California just prior to you're literature becoming 'no cost', -legal action to try to prevent sales tax from being imposed on Swaggart's literature. You people are so eager to prove people wrong ... Prove ME wrong! Bring me a written statement denying the letter of Rutherford to Hitler and the Swaggart defense by Watchtower lawyers.

    JW: Well l'll just ask our elders about these things.

    Bob: I didn't stumble you did I?

    JW: NO! (visibly shaken)

    Bob: Good ...because I wouldn't want you to be stumbled ...so that you wouldn't come back to see me again or something.

    JW: Oh, I'll be back ...and with proof that we never had anything to do with Jimmy Swaggart.

    Bob: Written rebuttal from the Watchtower headquarters ...and also something about J.F. Rutherford's letter to Adolf Hitler.

    JW: I will ask our elders as soon as I can.

    Bob: Denials from one of your 'elders' is meaningless ...they are as equally un-informed as you, and anything they have to say is un-official.

    JW: Then I will ask them to write the Society about it.

    Bob: And you promise to come back?

    JW: Absolutely.

    Bob: Are you sure?

    JW: The Bible says to let your yes mean yes and your no mean no.

    Bob: Don't take too long ...I might lose interest.

    Epilogue: The JW never came back ...so much for your "yes mean yes". Wherever that JW is, perhaps by now disfellowshipped for asking the 'elders' questions about those issues, it's sure that today there's one less completely ignorant JW.

    Interestingly, the Jehovah's Witnesses don't call on Bob's house anymore. He even called the Kingdom Hall asking for a visit, but was told that the elders were 'too busy'. Bob asked if someone else could come to answer his questions, but was again told that the elders were 'too busy'.

    Bob knew that the JW would not be able to get an official denial from the Watchtower, for Watchtower officials know that this would only add to the number of people who publish the fact that the Watchtower is a Liar Organization.

    All those Watchtower lawyers, and they're still unable to bring a libel suit against those who are publicly calling them Liar.

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Bible Examiner,

    That's a great "demonstration!"

    Do you have any websites for the letter from Rutherford to Hitler? I've been wondering about that myself.

    Thanks.

    Pat

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Good grief, Pat!

    I thought everyone in the UNIVERSE know about this! (Including Brooklyn Bethel, the German Nazi Government, but excepting all modern-day lazy dubs!)

    It's all clearly contained in the 1934 WTS Yearbook and I'm virtually certain that Kent has it on his site, (among a zillion other sites, too).

    I would like to have asked that dub to get his hands on an original 1934 Yearbook and read the damn thing himself!

    It is JFR's classic "Declaration of Facts" (a personal letter to Adolph Hitler) and which should have been entitled "A Declaration of: I Will Suck up to You in Any Way Possible if You Will Please Not Shut Down My Profitable Printing Empire in Germany. I Have a Mansion In San Diego to Support, You Know."

    I just topped Fred Franz for the longest title for a book or an article, Class(tm)!

    Farkel

    "When in doubt, duck!"

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    The letter was rescued from the Nazi archives?
    Not quite so; it was printed in the 1934 Yearbook, and it is printed in whole in both German and English versions in most of the 20-30 books written in Germany on Jehovah's Witnesses and their experiences during World War II.
    There is no secrecy about this letter, and there is nothing strange about its contents. It just states that each and everyone could sign up and agree with the general, nice-worded governmental program of the National Socialists in Germany. After all, they did not write in their governmental program that they were to exterminate all Jews, Sinti and Roma, Homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Communists etc. - the wrote "Labour for all", "New roads", "Secure homes", "Stable economy" etc. And who would not subscribe to that?
    Meaningfull conversations on these topics could be held, but not with the attitude you come forth with, I am afraid.
    The pro's and con's are discussed in Garbe's and Hesse's and others' books.

  • uncle_onion
    uncle_onion

    Here is James Pentons letter to the WTS. It seems that this is more than a question of attitude.

    UO

    An Open Letter From M. James Penton, PhD to Milton G. Henschel
    AN OPEN LETTER

    August 11, 1995
    Milton G. Henschel, President
    Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society
    25 Columbia Heights
    Brooklyn, New York
    U.S.A. 11201

    M. James Penton

    Dear Mr. Henschel:
    Yesterday I obtained a copy of the August 22 Awake! magazine with its articles on "The Holocaust: Who Spoke Out?". On reading the articles in that issue of Awake!, I was thoroughly shocked and disgusted.

    The Watch Tower Society has long attempted a cover-up of the most dishonest sort. While your organization properly censures other religious communities for their compromises with and support of Nazism, it tries to claim that Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jehovah's Witnesses alone, never were guilty of such compromise. Yet history tells a different story. The "Erklärung" or "Declaration" published by the Watch Tower Society at the Berlin Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses in June 1933 is, in itself, clear evidence that the Society's president, Judge J. F. Rutherford, as accompanied by N. H. Knorr, manifested anti-Semitism, hostility to Great Britain and the United States, and to the League of Nations. Furthermore, the "Erklärung" clearly states that Jehovah's Witnesses supported the aims of the Third Reich.

    In addition to the "Erklärung", there is the evidence of the Society's letter to Hitler sent on or immediately following June 25, 1933, and the public statements made about the Berlin convention by Konrad Franke in lectures throughout Germany some years ago. All of this I have made public in my book Apocalypse Delayed (1985)-which I know has been read at Watch Tower headquarters both from court documents and inside reports-and in the spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest. So it is impossible for responsible members of your organization not to know the facts. Thus the August 22 Awake! is nothing short of an historical abomination.

    I am aware of the feeble attempt of the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses to exculpate Judge Rutherford and the Watch Tower Society in Brooklyn by claiming that the Society's German branch overseer, Paul Balzereit, "weakened" the "Erklärung". But the "Erklärung" or "Declaration" was published in both the German and English versions of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses as an official statement of the Watch Tower Society. So it is impossible to believe that it was not sanctioned by Rutherford and the man who succeeded him as the Society's president, N. H. Knorr. Therefore, the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses of that time attempted to commit what amounted to spiritual whoredom with the Third Reich in the fashion of the two sisters, Oholah and Oholibah of Ezekiel 23, according to the Society's own teachings.

    Although I do not expect an answer from you, nor do I want one, to make certain that you, personally, are aware of the facts, I am sending you the following materials:

    (1) A photocopy of the original "Erklärung"

    (2) A photocopy of the "Erklärung" as it appeared in the German edition of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses;

    (3) A photocopy of the "Declaration" as it appears in the English edition of the 1934 Year Book of Jehovah's Witnesses;

    (4) A photocopy of the Hitler letter, plus an English translation thereof;

    (5) A copy of the Spring 1990 issue of The Christian Quest.

    Since I am well aware that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, of which you are a senior member, is carrying on what amounts to a "Big Lie" campaign (1) to make Jehovah's Witnesses appear to be God's faithful and discreet slave class on earth and (2) to discredit other religions, as a former Jehovah's Witness, a professional historian, and as a Christian who
    believes that God has no need of our lies, I feel forced to expose the facts to the general public. Hence, I am sending copies of this letter, plus the above listed documentation, to both religious and secular publications throughout the United States and Canada. I will, of course, also make them available to persons in other lands so that they may be made known wherever possible.

    In closing, Mr. Henschel, I would beg the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, who carry heavy responsibility before God and humankind, to come clean and admit the facts. Hypocrisy and falsifying the historical record are serious sins, as I am sure you are aware.

    Sincerely yours,

    M. James Penton, PhD
    Professor Emeritus

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