When one disasociates or is disfellowshipped surely the acceptance of the majority to shun from the view of the minority is of a sinful nature. This dawned on me today when walking home with the kids from school a member of the kingdom hall drove past us and waved ( at the kids - not making eye contact with me ) in fact i saw two members who did the same.
The question that arose in my mind as i strolled home was this, These people are basing their apparent belief i am an apostate on an announcement made from the platform at the kingdom hall, This statement was obviously made by an elder etc.Therefore they have all become judges against me without a case - for only the elders know of the conversation i had with them on the day i DA'D. This makes me feel that every witness who shuns someone is becoming party basically to gossip, they dont know the reasons for the person being treated the way they are being treated, but they agree and continue to do so .They also have become a judge of the person, however they have judged you without a case, since they havent asked your side of the arguement and also never can as they wont speak to you again.Have lifted theirself up on a pedestal to the level of Jesus/God as your judge.the list could go on and on.
At one time i confronted an elder concerning the scripture this is taken from;
1 Cor 5:9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? ?Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.?
6 Does anyone of YOU that has a case against the other dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? 2 Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by YOU, are YOU unfit to try very trivial matters? 3 Do YOU not know that we shall judge angels? Why, then, not matters of this life? 4 If, then, YOU do have matters of this life to be tried, is it the men looked down upon in the congregation that YOU put in as judges? 5 I am speaking to move YOU to shame. Is it true that there is not one wise man among YOU that will be able to judge between his brothers, 6 but brother goes to court with brother, and that before unbelievers?
7 Really, then, it means altogether a defeat for YOU that YOU are having lawsuits with one another. Why do YOU not rather let yourselves be wronged? Why do YOU not rather let yourselves be defrauded? 8 To the contrary, YOU wrong and defraud, and YOUR brothers at that.My point is that we leave the judging to God, when we start judging we "Become a God" and self righteous.
After i DA'D said to the elder "as i have DA'D myself you can now speak to me" he said "why" i said " i'm not a brother anymore" he couldnt find a way out and left it at that.
Whilst i know this point has been covered before and their behaviour doesnt upset me, I'd really like to get some of them to explain it from the bible.They are willing to ignore you for life possibly because you dont agree with a simple teaching. Does God view us this way, I really cant see it when we consider people such as Cain who slayed his brother, did God ignore him forever, No God infact Let Cain Go out from before him with the Guilt of the matter upon him, but also protected him with a mark so no one would slay him, God showed mercy to the first murderer, if the witnesses were right ( and thats a huge IF )would God never speak to us again because we couldnt comprehend one teaching when he showed mercy to a murderer along with many other serious sinners??
God bless you
Looking forward to comments and examples of this
Ade
accept their judgment of others. shunning
by Ade 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Ade
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Leolaia
This is what the Society used to teach:
" While considering this phase of the subject, we might pause a moment to inquire the extent to which the Church, directly or indirectly, or through its elders, is to exercise this duty of admonishing the disorderly, and of eventually excluding them from the assembly. It is not within the power of the Church to exclude permanently. The brother who, having offended either a brother member or the whole Church body, returns again and says, "I repent of my wrong course, and promise my best endeavors to do right in the future," or the equivalent of this, is to be forgiven-- fully, freely--as heartily as we hope the Lord will forgive the trespasses of all. No one but the Lord has the power or authority to cut off any individual everlastingly--the power to sever a branch from the Vine....
"Such an excluded brother or sister should not be treated as an enemy, nor thought of as such; but as an erring brother, as the Apostle says further on in this same epistle, "If any man obey not our word by this epistle [if he be disorderly, unwilling to submit himself to sound reasoning and loving, generous rules of order] note that man, and have no company with him, to the end that he may be ashamed; yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." (2 Thess. 3:14,15) Such a case as this would imply some open, public opposition on the part of the brother to the rules of order laid down by the Apostle, as the Lord's mouthpiece; and such a public opposition to right principles should be rebuked by the congregation, should they decide that the brother is so out of order that he needs admonishing; and if he does not consent to the form of sound words, sent us by our Lord through the Apostle, he should be considered as so out of accord as to make it no longer proper that he should have the fellowship of the brethren until he would consent to these reasonable requirements. He should not be passed by on the street unnoticed by the brethren, but be treated courteously. The exclusion should be merely from the privileges of the assembly and from any special brotherly associations, etc., peculiar to the faithful. This is implied also in our Lord's words, "Let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." Our Lord did not mean that we should do injury to a heathen man or a publican, nor treat either in any manner unkindly; but merely that we should not fellowship such as brethren , nor seek their confidences, nor as New Creatures give them ours." (New Creation, 1904, pp. 302-303)
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fullofdoubtnow
You make a good point here, Ade:
they dont know the reasons for the person being treated the way they are being treated, but they agree and continue to do so
Very few in the congregation are privy to why anyone is df'd or da'd, but they go along with the shunning because they are continually told that it is what Jehovah requires of them, and to defy the order would be to defy Jehovah. This is something that was said to me when I refused to shun a da'd friend, and ultimately led to me da'ing when I did. I was threatened with discipline by the elders, but was on my way out by then anyway. Those who want to remain jws see themselves as having more to lose, I suppose, and are more likely to go along with the shunning, despite not knowing the facts behind the person's exit fro the org.
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plmkrzy
ade
:and their behaviour doesnt upset me
That's the important thing.As for getting them to use the bible for explanation without distortion? Forget it.
They distorted the entire shunning thing using those very scriptures by classifying someone that questions doctrine the same as a criminal or a willful immoral person that has no intention of ever being good or even trying.plm
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moshe
In a few years the Witnesses won't matter anymore. Unless you have a lot of JW relatives, you can do without their company just fine.
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Ade
I know i just feel sorry for people who this kind of thing does upset, and possibly drive them to worse things than depression. Being made to feel worthless by people is a serious sin.Its the equivalent of calling someone a despicable fool, basically "worthless / of no value" is what Jesus meant, in this instance this is the way the JW'S have labelled us.
all the best
Ade -
Flash
accept their judgment of others. shunning
Matthew 18: 15 ~ 17
17 "...let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."
Christ makes it clear that shunning has its place. When it should be applied as determined by those leading the congregation is another matter.
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under_believer
Flash, the question I have for you is: How did the Jews treat men of the nations and tax collectors? Jesus (the Bible's perfect example) seems to have given us a lead. How did he treat Matthew (a tax collector?) How did he treat the Samaritan woman (a woman of the nations?)
For that matter, how did the Jews at large treat foreigners?
Just something to think about. I'm not convinced that the words you quote dictate shunning. -
Flash
under_believer
How did the Jews treat men of the nations and tax collectors? Jesus (the Bible's perfect example) seems to have given us a lead. How did he treat Matthew (a tax collector?) How did he treat the Samaritan woman (a woman of the nations?) For that matter, how did the Jews at large treat foreigners?
Just something to think about. I'm not convinced that the words you quote dictate shunning.Excellant points. In Jesus words and example there does seem to be "wiggle room." Depending on the individual/s. Jesus knew how His disciples would take His words because of Jewish law...but His actions send a differant message.
Before Christ, the Jews by law were only allowed to have business dealings with non-Jews, no socializing was permited. As you mentioned Jesus (our exempler) showed us by His words and actions that this law was no longer an absolute. My opinion is that we must each have the freedom to decide how far we choose to, or not to, associate with someone who has chosen NOT to live by divine standards (emphasis on DIVINE). The bible record shows that the apostles disagree with this. IMO, their exhortations must be for us to consider when deciding our own course of action in determining how much, if any, we associate with people who left Christ and God. However, as you pointed out, Jesus words and example are the true standard.