Most of you may not care, but in the link there is a debate between the two on this subject:
Greg Stafford/Robert Morey Gods' ominpotence
by Death to the Pixies 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Confession
I'm about halfway through the ninety minute podcast. It's good to hear Greg Stafford declare his departure from the WTS--and explain his reasons. He clearly still believes a number of things JWs teach are correct, but cannot justify other things.
As I listen I'm surprised to find myself agreeing with Greg a good deal more than the other guy. I think Morey and the host take a pretty hardline, fatalistic position--and try to force Stafford to admit he believes in a "limited God" merely because he thinks humans have freewill.
Expected to find Greg to be a bit of a tool. At this point, I have to say I think he presents himself in a very knowledgeable yet open-minded way.
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frankiespeakin
Too bad he still argues about a mythical God of the bible, I would think if he really is intelligent he would give up such an ancient myth in line with a more modern not archaic paradigm.
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Peppermint
That chap Morey is a Arrogant fellow.
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garybuss
To be sure, there is a fight today for Christianity, a fight for "the way and the truth and the life," a fight for Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as "the Savior of the world" (1 John 4:14 ). But the "antichrist" denies both "the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22 ). So I will fight for "his name and the name of his son" (Proverbs 30:4).
Jehovah's Witnesses represent, for me, the best place to start fighting this battle once again. Until that changes, until Jehovah decides to "put his name" somewhere else, I will I defend Jehovah's Witnesses.
Greg Stafford
August 1, 2006
http://www.elihubooks.com/greg-stafford/jwd3.htm -
XJW4EVR
That chap Morey is a Arrogant fellow.
Bob Morey's is a pretty good guy. What you hear is the New York City in him. I spent years attending his classes down in Anaheim, and often asked him to tone it down a bit. He's set in his ways. I guess when you have learned from some of the great Christian thinkers of the 20th century, you tend to be pretty sure of yourself.
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Confession
Thanks for providing that quote, Gary. If I hadn't listened to him last night, I'd really be wondering how he could have written such a thing. But Greg likes to, as he says, 'differentiate between Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society.' It's not something I can do, but I suspect that his thinking goes something like this...
At some point Jehovah gathered "a people for His name." While the WTS may have been instrumental in this gathering, they weren't (or at least they aren't now) His "sole channel of communication." While he cannot accept a number of the Society's official teachings (notably their assertions on blood,) he does think the resulting bunch of people are the ones who most closely today represent that "people for His name."
There are times when he speaks that I almost wonder if he's talking about JWs as "Watchtower followers" or if he simply means it in the general sense, such as "the line of faithful witnesses that date from the time of Abel" or something. Either way, he has definitely broken from the Society in that he no longer attends or has anything to do with the organization. Apparently he now attends a Unitarian church.
What I'd really like to hear is a discussion between Greg and a well-versed ex-JW.
Confession
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M.J.
I think there are plenty of archived debates from the old days (90s) between Greg and a few of the "seasoned" folks who now post on this board. But that's probably when he was a full WTS apologist.
I like what Morey writes here, which to me makes a lot of sense: http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/morey.htm
I haven't had a chance to listen to this but I'm beginning to suspect that these types controversies are controversies for a reason...like perhaps the Biblical authors themselves did not present a unanimous or unambiguous view on the topic in the first place.