by KW13 8 Replies latest jw friends
Ya know when a dub is fighting something just because they are a dub but they can see its wrong?
Me and Megan proved that Jesus had died on a Cross and yet mum refused to accept it.
There is a scripture in John 22 where Thomas is invited to put his finger in the holes in the hand(s) of jesus where the nail(s) were. With it being Nails and Hands you get the impression of two and not one, mum wouldn't accept that tho lol. Two nails means Cross.
I think I've seen Watchtower depictions of the "impalement" with one of Jesus' hands on either side of the stake. So they can say he had a nail in each hand, and still claim "stake".
I always (ever since leaving JW's) thought this was a particularly pointless thing for the Watchtower to try to be different about. But the more "different" they can appear, the more "elite" their members can feel, I suppose.
Dave
Actually the idea that he died on a stauros is what the bible says. There is no proof whatsoever that it was a cross. The JW's are dead right about this one. Both hands would have had nails through them whether on a crux or stauros. The Greek happens to be dead accurate on this one though. The other verses that say he was hung on a tree seem to indicate the hands over head traditional Jewish style of hanging too. The Jews had a few execution methods to choose from for Pilate to use. Beheadding would have been another...
Butters said:
Actually the idea that he died on a stauros is what the bible says. There is no proof whatsoever that it was a cross. The JW's are dead right about this one. Both hands would have had nails through them whether on a crux or stauros. The Greek happens to be dead accurate on this one though. The other verses that say he was hung on a tree seem to indicate the hands over head traditional Jewish style of hanging too. The Jews had a few execution methods to choose from for Pilate to use. Beheadding would have been another
He's right Karl. But there are plenty of other topics about the JW religion that you could choose from to talk to mom about.
And like Dave said it really is a picky point to be used by the JWs.
Juni
How about, (since you are trying to use the bible) asking them about the following verse in light of the whole blood ordeal? Also PM me, I have some good private articles written by ExJW friends that use the bible very well to show that blood is ok among humans, but not from animals...nevertheless, humans are encouraged by Jesus to give blood and take blood!
Joh 15:12
This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you.Joh 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.Joh 15:14
Ye are my friends, if ye do the things which I command you.This is as good as saying, "Lay down on the table and give your blood to help your buddy. Even if it means dying for him." I really don't see how any JW could ever argue against this. This is a good verse for proving self defense is ok too! The reason we KNOW for SURE that this verse actually means give blood is because JW's already know that "THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" right?? Well then, the word BLOOD could very easily be used there instead of LIFE in the verses above!
Lev 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you...
Actually the idea that he died on a stauros is what the bible says. There is no proof whatsoever that it was a cross. The JW's are dead right about this one. Both hands would have had nails through them whether on a crux or stauros. The Greek happens to be dead accurate on this one though. The other verses that say he was hung on a tree seem to indicate the hands over head traditional Jewish style of hanging too. The Jews had a few execution methods to choose from for Pilate to use. Beheadding would have been another
Sorry, I don't agree. The historical and biblical evidence indicates that Jesus did in fact, die on a cross, not a single pole. First, the scripture that quotes Thomas says:
(John 20:25) . . .But he said to them: "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe."
I don't think anyone would suggest that the word "hands" is talking about one of His hands---it's obviously talking about two hands. Likewise, the word "nails" is obviously talking about more than one nail, which strongly indicates that Jesus' hands were outstretched on a beam when he died.
Secondly, the Romans most certainly did use crosses as a method of execution 2,000 years ago. It originally was only used as a means of punishment, not execution, but that changed, and they used to also add a "seat" under the victim's bum, which prolonged the torture sometimes for days. The idea that Jesus didn't die on a cross because it was pagan, is ludicrous. The Romans were pagans and would have had no qualms whatsoever about putting someone to death by this means.
Here's an excellent article done on the subject: http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/cross.htm
I did a thread discussing the physical evidence that Jesus died on a cross and not a single beam: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120465/1.ashx
In a nutshell, Jesus would have been dead in less than 1/2 an hour, had his arms been nailed over his head. There is far more evidence, scripturally, historically and physically, that Jesus did die on a cross, not a single beam. Rutherford changed this doctrine and made a huge deal out of it, simply to appear "different" than other religions.
Karl, I would suggest that you print off some of the information here and show it to your mother. I would also ask her why Jehovah chose Charles Russell to be the instrument in bringing back "true religion" when he taught that Jesus died on a cross.
YES!
when I read this scripture (after the jw veil had been lifted) I was floored that I never noticed this before.
how could I have NOT seen the plain sense of that verse???
it still amazes me the degree of brainwashing...
The bible says they hung a sign OVER his head....not above his hands .....so if his hands were as the dubs depict him....they could not have hung a sign ABOVE his head.
Gumcross
Actually, Jesus never died at all. He hired a double and didn't tell him where he was headed that day. Jesus ran off to France to have bagettes with Mary M. his wife and raise perfect kids that would be persecuted throughout history and become the subject of a cheesy novel and lousy movie.
Let's face it, he doesn't look like he's suffering on the stake as much as on the cross. I guess if you're gonna die for mankind, you should be miserable. Ok, its a cross.
W.Once
