I just learn from my wife and step-kids that you (JW) can't pray for someone that is disfellowshipped. Is this true, if so can someone explain and show scriptures as to how they apply it?
Can't pray for disfellowship person
by GramblingMan 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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sass_my_frass
You'd have to ask a JW (or hope that Blondie reads your thread...)
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Double Edge
That's not exactly following the scriptures. Christ said to pray for everyone:
Mat thew 5:43-45 (King James Version)
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
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mama bear
--- I just learn from my wife and step-kids that you (JW) can't pray for someone that is disfellowshipped. Is this true, if so can someone explain and show scriptures as to how they apply it? ---
While this is indeed the truth from the standpoint of those who are active Witnesses the core problem does not exist in the refusal to pray for df'd or da'd ones so much as the existence and implementation of their particular version of disfellowshipping! Their doctrinal stand on this issue is, like most of the rest of their doctrine, quite out of sync with the Bible. Most non JW eyes can look at all the verses discussing the disfellowshipping of an individual and follow Paul's exhortation quite easily. Yet, the leadership of the WTS in it's usual 'controlling' fashion has sought to foment an erroneous interpretation and to foist this upon the rank and file membership who -- curiously -- can do nothing to challenge this doctrine without throwing themselves on the disfellowshipping sword for disagreeing with WT Doctrine. So, if the adaptation of this doctrine is based in incorrect understanding and application then everything associated with this teaching is as erroneous.
Surely the prodigal son serves as incontrovertible evidence the WTS' disfellowshipping policy is altogether bogus!
Who among us who had a close member of the family df'd did not pray to God about their 'loved one'? Seriously. What is done up in your head is not heard or seen by another living soul beyond you and God and no one can really legislate what your private thoughts and prayers can be. Some of us retained enough of ourselves through the whole brain washing process to be able to be true to ourselves if even in quiet prayer. Admittedly the first few years I was a Witness I treated a df'd person as though they were lepers. However, with maturity in age and life experience and knowing that everyone makes mistakes the mellowing of my belief where this was concerned happened as well. Actually, for the last couple of years I was an active Witness I made no bones about encouraging the df'd ones who made it to the meetings, even though I was a lowly sister, and one in particular I gave routine hugs to because his whole dfing was a sham! This kid, who was then 18 and baptised and wanting to be engaged to a sister who's father was an elder, was asked to confess to our body that when he was 15 he had a sexual encounter with a 'worldly' girl to which he never confessed. He was not baptised at that time. When he became engaged he told his fiance' who then thought her elder dad should know. So, the elder dad informed the 18 yr old boy to go and confess. He did. He was very remorseful. Sincerely so. However, because the girl was a 'worldly' girl and she knew he claimed to be a Witness they just canned the kid and held the line on his being reinstated in a year even though that restriction went out the door decades ago! We were close to the family and this kid was just such a truly sweet young man. He took his pill. He went to all meetings dutifully, never forgetting he wanted to get married. He sucked it up and took the humililiation. He did his year and the body took their time deciding to reinstate him. But, he was reinstated and he did get married and they moved. I have no idea how they are doing. His family were strong Witnesses though each of the siblings had been df'd at least once. I just could not abide the whole thing thinking it was a very heavy handed abuse of power and done solely to exert power over the kid. It is stuff like this ... the real scars that really exists among those of us who were there and retired as veterans of that lifestyle that keep us coming back to share so that those who find themselves facing the inevitable dilemna of whether to stay or go can see that we have all been able to get on with our lives as far as living them are concerned. Like anything though with such devastating consequences, a need for a strong support group is necessary so that healing can happen. Grief can happen. Life can happen.
If you know someone who is disfellowshipped I can't think of another soul who would be in more dire need of your prayers! Please pray for whatever guilt they carry around in their hearts deposited there by these folks will dissipate and they can have a clear mind and heart to make the decisions in life they need to make to deal with their changed circumstances. Hopefully, they will avail themselves of the loving hearts here and find that returning for some sort of absolution by the elders is not necessary!
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Honesty
Who cares what Scripture says; Jehovah's Witnesses obey the OVERLORDS of the Watchtower Society.
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blondie
There is a recent Question From Readers that says that you can pray privately for df'd JWs just not publicly at a meeting.
If someone wants to post it now, that would helpful. Otherwise I will later.
Blondie
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StillGroggy
Pray for them that they find this board and never go back!
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Atlantis
Watchtower-1971-June-15-p.383 Questions From Readers • Is it proper to pray for a person who has been disfellowshiped (expelled) from the Christian congregation?—Czechoslovakia. Scripturally, it does not seem fitting and proper for a faithful Christian to pray for a disfellowshiped person. The Bible names certain detestable things that God hates. These include fornication, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality and stealing. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19-21) Jehovah’s law commands the Christian congregation to expel those who practice such things and who show no heartfelt repentance for their acts. The faithful members of the congregation should have no spiritual association with them.—See The Watchtower, July 1, 1963, pages 409-414, for discussion of the Scriptural basis for disfellowshiping. Since the judgment of these persons is from God as expressed in his Word, prayer for such ones would be tantamount to asking God to overlook or condone the sins of unrepentant ones or practicers of wrongdoing. These disfellowshiped persons have spurned the mercy God gladly extends on the basis of Christ’s ransom to anyone who repents and turns from a bad course, sincerely asking Jehovah’s forgiveness.—1 John 1:9; 2:1, 2; 3:4-8; Heb. 6:1-8; 10:26-31. ********************************************************************** Scan: http://x5.freeshare.us/view/?123fs962099.jpg Cheers! Atlantis-
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blondie
2001 update:
*** w01 12/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
Does God’s direction recorded at Jeremiah 7:16 mean that Christians would not pray about someone who has been expelled from the Christian congregation because he is an unrepentant sinner?
After pronouncing his judgment against unfaithful Judah, Jehovah said to Jeremiah: "As for you, do not pray in behalf of this people, neither raise in their behalf an entreating cry or a prayer nor beseech me, for I shall not be listening to you."—Jeremiah 7:16.
Why did Jehovah forbid Jeremiah to pray for the Israelites? Clearly, it was because of their flagrant transgressions of his Law. Openly and shamelessly, they were "stealing, murdering and committing adultery and swearing falsely and making sacrificial smoke to Baal and walking after other gods." Consequently, Jehovah told the faithless Jews: "I will throw you out from before my face, just as I threw out all your brothers, the whole offspring of Ephraim." Certainly, it would be out of place for Jeremiah, or anyone else, to pray for Jehovah to reverse His judgment.—Jeremiah 7:9, 15.
In line with this, the apostle John wrote about proper prayer to God. First, he assured Christians: "No matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us." (1 John 5:14) Then, regarding praying in behalf of others, John continued: "If anyone catches sight of his brother sinning a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and he will give life to him, yes, to those not sinning so as to incur death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request." (1 John 5:16) Jesus also spoke of sin that "will not be forgiven," that is, sin against the holy spirit.—Matthew 12:31, 32.
Does this mean that all who are expelled from the Christian congregation for sinning unrepentantly have committed sins that "incur death" and thus should not be prayed about? This would not necessarily be the case because in some instances such transgressions are not sins that incur death. In fact, it is difficult to tell if they are. A typical example is King Manasseh of Judah. He erected altars to false gods, offered up his own sons in sacrifice, practiced spiritism, and put a carved image in Jehovah’s temple. In fact, the Bible says that Manasseh and the people did "what was bad more than the nations whom Jehovah had annihilated from before the sons of Israel." For all of this, Jehovah punished Manasseh by sending him as captive in fetters to Babylon.—2 Kings 21:1-9; 2 Chronicles 33:1-11.
Were Manasseh’s sins, gross as they were, the kind that incur death? Apparently not, for the account goes on to say about him: "As soon as it caused him distress, he softened the face of Jehovah his God and kept humbling himself greatly because of the God of his forefathers. And he kept praying to Him, so that He let himself be entreated by him and He heard his request for favor and restored him to Jerusalem to his kingship; and Manasseh came to know that Jehovah is the true God."—2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
Thus, we should not jump to the conclusion that a person must be guilty of sin that incurs death solely because he is expelled from the congregation. It may take time for the true heart condition of the individual to be revealed. In fact, it is often stated that one of the purposes of disfellowshipping is to cause the sinner to wake up and hopefully to repent and turn around.
Since the person is no longer in the congregation, any change in heart and attitude may be observed first by those close to him, such as a marriage mate or family members. Those observing such changes may conclude that the transgressor did not commit a sin that incurs death. They may be moved to pray that he may draw strength from God’s inspired Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with His will.—Psalm 44:21; Ecclesiastes 12:14.
While some may be in a position to observe sufficient evidence to believe that the sinner has repented, this may not be the case with the congregation in general. They would be puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one. For this reason, those who feel moved to pray about the sinner should do so only in private, leaving any further development in the matter in the hands of the responsible elders in the congregation.
[Picture
onpage31]Manasseh’s gross sins were forgiven when he humbled himself before Jehovah
[Picture
CreditLineonpage30]Reproduced from IllustriertePracht-Bibel/HeiligeSchriftdesAltenundNeuenTestaments, nach der deutschen Uebersetzung D. Martin Luther’s
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lisavegas420
I'd was told at my df'ing meeting with the elders that as a df'd person, there was also no reason for me (the df'pee) to pray as Jehovah's doesn't listen to df'd people's prayers.
lisa
