This is very exciting for me... but I need your help...

by misguided 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • misguided
    misguided

    I had a chat with my mother the other night...it was "business" as she just retired. But I took the opportunity to tell her about the Russell graphing his dates to pyramid measurements and told her to look at Studies In The Scriptures Vol III, 1904 edition would give a 1881 date, but the 1910 edition would give the 1914 date. I know my grandmother has these books in her library...and she lives with them, so my mom can look them up and see the "truth."

    Anyhow, tonight we had a conversation...AND she wants to know the facts about the "flip flops". She brought up how important it was that the light gets brighter...but I said in some instances if flicks on and off...so now I need your help findin the "proof" to this statement. I've got some together right now..but I know you all can be a resource of valuable infomation.

    My mother agreed to read it...if I sent it by mail so that my father doesn't see it.

    Oh....wishful thinking....

    Rose

  • penny2
    penny2

    Lights may flick on and off. However, usually when a light flicks back on, everything looks exactly the same as before it flicked off. I guess you mean, while the light is off, they get it all wrong. I like that!

    I've had these conversations with my parents too, but usually their purpose is to pin me down on my complaints so they can 'explain' them, after which, of course, I'll come back into 'the truth'.

    For a good analysis of 'light getting brighter', I recommend jwfacts' website, www.jwfacts.com (menu on the left).

    penny2

  • MsMcDucket
    MsMcDucket

    I think that you can find the information on Danny's Pyramid Pages: http://www.dannyhaszard.com/pyramids/pyramid.htm

    This subject is brought up a lot, so it must be in the archives somewhere.

  • ringo5
    ringo5

    This is one of their most wishy-washy interpretations of scripture I know about. It may not seem like an earth shattering subject, but the amount of times they vacillate back and forth and all the while maintaining their dogmatic tone (not very discreet-like), speaks volumes about how carelessly they throw their assertions about, seemingly without regard for the intelligence of their readers , or in their view, the author of this book they claim to respect.

    Who is the One who is coming Rev 22:12

    The Finished Mystery 1917….. Jesus

    1:8. I am THE Alpha and I AM ALSO THE Omega .— Alpha is the first letter, and Omega the last letter, of the Greek alphabet.The Beginning and the Ending .— "Our Lord's great honor is shown in that He was not only the first of God's creation, but the last. From this we are to understand that the great Jehovah did not directly employ His own power in creating either men or angels; but that He delegated His power to His Only-begotten Son."— Z.'93-115. Saith the Lord GOD .— But not the clergy; they will have none of this doctrine.Which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty .— "It is since His resurrection that the message has gone forth— 'All power in Heaven and in earth is given unto Me.' (Matt. 28:18.) Consequently it is only since then that He could be called

    22:12. [And] behold, I come quickly.— See Rev. 16:15; 22:7, 10, 20. The Lord Himself becomes the speaker.And My reward is with Me, to [give] BE GIVEN every man.— Every man in Christ.According as his work [shall be] IS.— The Church's work is practically finished. The reward is given on the basis of the work already done, in character development and in the natural outgrowth of that development— works.

    22:13. I am Alpha and Omega, THE FIRST AND THE LAST, the Beginning and the End, [the First and the Last].— "Our Lord tells us over and over again (See Rev. 1:8, 11, 17; 2:8; 3:14; 21:6), that He is the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last, of the creation of God."— Z.'93-115.

    FM337

    22:16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.— All down the Age the Church has had this Message; all down the Age holy men of God have sought to understand its mysteries; all down the Age it has remained a closed book. But now the Mystery of God is finished; and the object of keeping the book closed is accomplished. God wished the world to know when the time for the complete removal or error and for the establishment of His Kingdom would come; and so He enables the last members of His Church to give the Message.

    *** w52 4/15 p. 242 The Field of Bible Prophecy…Jehovah

    Jehovah is the great Author and Finisher of his works, and this is so indicated in Revelation 1:8 (NW), where it says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says Jehovah God, ‘the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.’” Only Jehovah God knows the end from the beginning and therefore can foreknow future events in accord with his purposes. (Isa. 46:9, 10, AS

    *** w55 7/1 p. 387 Christ’s Coming an Academic Question? …..Jesus

    Jesus associated his return with the rewarding of his followers. Said he: “If I go my way and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you home to myself, that where I am you also may be.” And again: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.” Paul understood it this way, for he wrote: “I have fought the right fight, I have run the course to the finish, I have observed the faith. From this time on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not only to me, but to all those who have loved his manifestation.”—John 14:3; Rev. 22:12; 2 Tim. 4:7, 8, NW.

    w67 11/15 p. 680 Make Up Your Mind Now as to Whom You Will serve..Jehovah

    Jehovah God himself next speaks to John, revealing the critical situation, the extreme danger if any one of God’s anointed ones becomes lax in the least way toward righteousness. Jehovah says: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.”—Rev. 22:12.

    *** w67 11/15 pp. 679-680 Make Up Your Mind Now as to Whom You Will Serve ***

    All these publications have received worldwide distribution and have not been revised or altered to please the religious beliefs nor the customs and practices of different peoples of earth. No, the unadulterated truth of the prophecy has been proclaimed to all.

    *** w76 11/15 p. 700 A Revelation—of Jehovah’s Will and Purposes ***Jesus

    Again, those observing the words of this prophecy are pronounced “happy.” Then the invitation is given to all who hear to take the water of life free. And those who would add to or take away from the words of this prophecy are warned of the consequences. Upon hearing Jesus promising to come quickly, John replies, “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”—Rev. 22:7-21.

    *** g78 8/22 p. 28 Who Is “the Alpha and the Omega”? *** Jehovah

    Finally, at Revelation 22:12, 13, we read: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” This quotation appears among others that are ascribed to an angel and to Jesus Christ. Before these words are quoted in the book of Revelation, the angel who was instrumental in presenting the revelation to the apostle John spoke. (Rev. 22:8, 9) Then, after the quotation that begins with Revelation 22:12 and ends with the words of verse 15, we find the statement: “I, Jesus, sent my angel.” (Rev. 22:16) Since the context does not necessitate our attributing the words of Revelation 22:12, 13 either to the angel or to Jesus, they could have originated with another speaker. Consistent with the rest of the book of Revelation, “the Alpha and the Omega” must be the Almighty God. He is the One who comes in the capacity of a judge to reward and to punish individuals according to their works.

    *** w78 10/1 p. 15 “Keep on the Watch” ….Jesus

    6 Also, in his final revelation concerning “the things that must shortly take place,” Jesus again stresses the suddenness with which he comes:

    “I am coming to you quickly . . . I am coming quickly. Keep on holding fast what you have.”—Rev. 2:16; 3:11.

    “Look! I am coming quickly. . . . Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me. . . . Yes; I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20)

    In response to these last expressions of our Master, surely each one of us joins with the apostle John in saying: “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”

    *** w88 6/15 p. 20 Detest Utterly the World’s Disgraceful Course …Jehovah

    Listen to how God himself describes, in his last recorded words in the Bible, the outcome for those who serve him and for those who do not: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. . . . Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority to go to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.”—Revelation 22:12-15.

    1988 Rev Climax
    *** re chap. 44 p. 316 Revelation and You ***Jehovah

    6 Jehovah, the King of eternity, now addresses readers of Revelation for the last time in the prophecy, saying: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority to go to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.”—Revelation 22:12-15.

    *** re chap. 44 p. 319 Revelation and You ***Jesus

    15 Jesus now adds a final word of encouragement: “He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’” (Revelation 22:20a) Jesus is “the faithful and true witness.” (Revelation 3:14) If he bears witness to the visions of Revelation, they must be true. Both he and Jehovah God himself repeatedly stress the fact that they are coming “quickly,” or soon, Jesus here saying that for the fifth time. (Revelation 2:16; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20)

    *** w99 12/1 p. 19 Be Happy Readers of the Book of Revelation ***Jehovah

    19 Jehovah himself states: “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.” (Revelation 22:12)

    *** w53 1/1 p. 31 Questions from Readers ***

    So we must be reasonable. When we see an expression that is applied to Jehovah several times in its unlimited sense, and then come across it again but not specifically indicated as applying to Jehovah, we cannot become flighty and switch the expression to Christ Jesus; and especially when we note that it is applied elsewhere, not in its unlimited sense, but only with definite limitation of meaning. Trinitarians try to capitalize on this expression to show it was used indiscriminately for either God or Christ, and in this way show God and Christ are the same. But logic and reason do not allow this, no more than do many other texts in the Bible.

    *** w76 5/15 297-8 Preaching Christ-Through Envy or Goodwill? ***

    It is a serious matter to represent God and Christ in one way, then find that our understanding of the major teachings and fundamental doctrines of the Scriptures was in error, and then after that, to go back to the very doctrines that, by years of study, we had thoroughly determined to be in error. Christians cannot be vacillating—‘wishy-washy’—about such fundamental teachings. What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgment of such persons?

    *** re chap. 44 p. 317 Revelation and You ***

    After their death as humans, they gain entrance into New Jerusalem by resurrection. The 12 angels allow them in, while keeping out any who practice lies or uncleanness though claiming to have a heavenly hope

    *** w59 10/1 p. 607 Questions from Readers ***

    Questions from Readers

    • Who are the writers of the publications of the Watch Tower Society, and what are their educational qualifications?—M.D., U.S.A.

    The literature published by the Watch Tower Society is published in the name of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Regardless of who may write certain articles, they are checked carefully by members of the governing body before they are published; so they are properly viewed as coming from the Society

    Ringo5

  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter

    Hi, when I am in a dim-ish room and can see basic shapes, they are the same shapes, only with more difinition and detail as the light gets brighter. The furniture doesn't disappear, it becomes clearer. Light getting brighter would not disintegrate the things that were in the room, it wouldn't make them disappear and the shapes would not morph from mouse to elephant. Facts don't disappear, they can be FURTHER defined, but previous information should not change.

    When a child is learning to read, they learn the little words-that is all that their 'gods'(parents/teachers)feel they are ready for. But after they learn to read 'it, as, I, we, them, sun, ran, mom, dad, son,' and move on to more difficult words, the small words are not ignored, forgotten or altered. They are truly the foundational words, and are used frequently throughout life. If that was how the WT 'light' became brighter, they may have a valid arguement. But they say that all the words you learned previous to this decade, year, week or yesterday are no longer valid or usable words once they get 'new' words. Is that light or darkness? Is there any wisdom in such a statement?

  • Honesty
  • misguided
    misguided

    Thank you for all your help...my list is getting LONG. I'm wondering which items I should concentrate on for now.

    She was a nurse, so I think the medical flip-flops along with a few of the doctrines would be the most effective?

    Oh, how I hope she sees it...

    Thank you!

    Rose

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