Does anyone have this? Cool if you did. Craking down on deciet.

by icocer 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • icocer
    icocer

    From "Should you Believe in the Trinity"

    The Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: "In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word [tri'as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian ." However, this is no proof in itself that Tertullian taught the Trinity.

    Look what the Watchtower left out to deceive you! (notice the ellipse: ". . .") "The word [tri'as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180.He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom" ("Ad. Autol.", 11, 15, P. G., VI, 1078). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian. "

    Need a photo copy of this Catholic Encyclopedia page.

    The Catholic work Trinitas-A Theological Encyclopedia of the Holy Trinity , for example, notes that some of Tertullian's words were later used by others to describe the Trinity. Then it cautions: " But hasty conclusions cannot be drawn from usage, for he does not apply the words to Trinitarian theology ."

    Once again Look at what the Watchtower left out. "The great African fashioned the Latin language of the Trinity, and many of his words and phrases remained permanently in use: the words Trinitas and persona, the formulas 'one substance in three persons,' 'God from God, light from Light .' He uses the word substantia 400 times, as he uses consubstantialis and consubstantivus, but hasty conclusions cannot be drawn from usage, for he does not apply the words to Trinitarian theology "

    Need photo copy of this Theological Encyclopedia.

    My Jw co-worker after a 1-1/2 years of telling him the the early christians are misrepresented in "Should you believe in the Trinity" told me today that he is thinking about writing the Watchtower on the lack of references for the early christians. It was a very interesting discussion. He however felt very confident that Tertullian did not believe in the trinity and quoted the above refences. I did not realize until tonight that he was quoting the booklet itself. Hence why I would love to show actual copies of their quoting practices.

    On an interesting note he asked me if they do have deceptive quoting why have they not been found out. I told him that they have been found out, only he is not allowed to ever see or hear any evidence of it. "Your summer convention told you not to look at websites or listen to things that I am saying, so how could you ever find out if your organization has been found out or not?"

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    The Catholic Encyclopedia appears online, and the quote is from the second paragraph at:

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

    If the Trinity is so clearly unChristian you have to wonder why the WTS resorts to such deception to disprove it.

  • icocer
    icocer

    One down, thanks JWFacts.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Of course Tertullian was a trinitarian, just have your friend read his Adversus Praxaean (see [1]), not just snippits of it but the whole thing. He did not conceptualize the trinity in Nicene terms; it was an early economical trinity (such that the Father was viewed as the source from which the Son is born and the Spirit proceeds via the Son), but clearly a trinity nonetheless, explicitly with distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit without division, thereby maintaining the substantial unity of God. Not only did Tertullian use the term "trinity" but he developed many of the concepts that contributed to later trinitarian thinking.

    It is hard to imagine the bit about Tertuallian in the Trinity broshure as anything but selective:

    Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E., taught the supremacy of God. He observed: "The Father is different from the Son (another), as he is greater; as he who begets is different from him who is begotten; he who sends, different from him who is sent." He also said: "There was a time when the Son was not. . . . Before all things, God was alone."

    Since this is a Trinity broshure that purports to trace the origin of trinitarianism, why do they mention only a few statements of Tertullian that happen to coincide with Watchtower teaching? Where is all the stuff about the "distribution of unity in a trinity," "distinction without division," "not a division or separation but a disposition," "distinction between the persons in the trinity," etc.? Not a hint that Tertullian thought along those terms.

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Hi, Icocer and great to have you on the board.

    I have good news and bad news. Good news: I have the "Trinitas Theological Encyclopaedia" in my library. Bad, bad, news: I don't have a scanner [would'nt know how to work one even if I did. The damn things probably give you cancer anyway] so I cant put it up on JWD

    The only solution is if you PM me with your adress I'll photocopy the two page article and post it out to you. If you have a scanner maybe you can put it on JWD yourself

    Cheers

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    You might find this site useful sometime:

    www.ccel.org

    You can read/download most of the works of the church fathers including Tertullian. There are also other tools such as study Bible etc.

  • Hannah
    Hannah

    Good luck. It shouldn't be hard to prove all the misquotes. Another book which is a hot bed of misquotes is the "Creation" book. I hope your co-worker see the "new light" you're showing him.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    I find it interesting that, while the catholic has many skeletons in it's closet, it is more honest than the wt society, when it is compared in the same time frame along side the wt.

    S

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    If you would like, I could add it to this collection: http://www.jwinfo.8m.com/misquotes.htm

    In order to do that, I would need your help phrasing it in the format of the misquotes on my list. I'm afraid I don't understand the quotes enough to be able to phrase it clearly. I'm not a big afficionado of bible stuff. (Did the wt take words out of context in the encyclopedia so as to change their meaning?)

    PM me if you want it on the list.

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