Nosferatu's School of Dating - Lesson 1.3 - Romance

by Nosferatu 9 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  Nosferatu

  Lesson 1.2 is here:
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/20/126529/1.ashx

  I was going to save this subject for the subject of Long Term Relationships, but it seems that it needs to be addressed before dating starts. I will come back to it to offer some ideas, but first I must clarify when to use romance, and to show that I'm not against it.

  There are two main rules that I keep in mind when it comes to romance and romantic gestures:

  1) Romance belongs in Long Term Relationships.
  2) Romance is the SPICE, not the meat of the relationship.

  Romance works when you're already seriously involved with a woman. I usually compare romance to a spice being added to a main course. Romance will enhance the relationship, much like steak seasoning will enhance the flavor of a steak.

  Now, given that, do you think your date would appreciate eating a main course of steak seasoning, with a couple small pieces of meat in it? She would thank you for the meal, but would tell you that she's not ready to eat a full plate of steak seasoning. Romantic gestures are much the exact same way.

  Before you have a main course to season, you need to prepare and cook the main course, which of course takes time. The same goes for relationships. You can't rush the preperation of a great relationship, it has to be developed over time, and then seasoned with romance for that perfect touch.

  For those of you already involved in LTRs, feel free to season your relationship with romantic gestures and gifts. However, be sure NOT to overseason your relationship or you'll spoil it. Overkill will ruin everything.

  So, the next time you think about bringing a woman romantic gifts to a first date (or even a third date), imagine that you're giving this woman whom you barely know a plate of steak seasoning.
• 

  zensim

  Sex and romance never really meet. Romance is in a certain way like a created idea, a mind thing. Example: A man and woman are being totally present sitting having dinner. A man is totally present sitting with a woman and is so present with her and taking in every little nuance of her movement, every little movement of her lips, everything. It is because of his presence that he is taking this in. It is not like he is sitting and gawking at her. He is actually feeling as she moves how her movement cuts the air in the room. He is feeling how, as she breathes out, her breath ricochets through her body. He is that present and aware.

  Someone sitting at the next table notices this amount of awareness and how the woman is practically having shivers. She is practically orgasmic at the table. So the person sitting looking on thinks "How romantic". But for the two people involved this is not romance at all. This is called being present. Romance is almost unconscious therefore has developed as a way of mimicking someone who is present.

  From that standpoint I would say that sex is something that would come naturally through presence and authenticity. It could never be mimicked, never be performed. It has to be felt and directly experienced. Sex comes out of authenticity and romance comes out of a mental attempt to displace something you are not actually in touch with.

  (taken from an interview with Shantam Nityama)
• 

  Nosferatu

  So the person sitting looking on thinks "How romantic". But for the two people involved this is not romance at all. This is called being present.

  I prefer to call this "infatuation" and "being horny"
• 

  merfi

  So, the next time you think about bringing a woman romantic gifts to a first date (or even a third date), imagine that you're giving this woman whom you barely know a plate of steak seasoning.

  Hey Nos,

  This is soooo true and I've had it happen to me. God is it annoying! I can't remember which of your other 'lessons' this was in -- about bringing flowers and springing for a $100 dinner on the first date. I felt stifled, yet obligated to see that evening through to the end. It was a nightmare date from the moment he walked in the door with 6 red roses... our first meeting/date. We went to see a movie, and throughout the whole thing, he was pawing at my hand. He'd grab it, then do this weird squeezing... 'thing'. Creeped me out. The movie was over a bit after nine, and I was home by 9:30 -- three hours after the date had started. Any and everything he *could* have done wrong (at least for me), he did. I don't plan on seeing him again...

  Contrast it with the guy I just met Thursday night. He's independent, doesn't "need" me, or any other woman, but genuinely enjoys hanging out with me. And it's reciprocated because he hasn't bombarded me with "steak seasoning". A bit of "kino" -- the first night we ment, some other dickweed was sitting on my other side being an ass, but my guy reached over and just touched my side. Sort of an "I'm here..." touch, but it established trust on some sort of level. We've been out every night since, and it's been just lovely. :)

  Anyways, just thought I'd back up some of what you've been saying here.

  ~merfi
• 

  zensim

  Nosferatu: "I prefer to call this "infatuation" and "being horny" (I still don't know how to do the cut and paste thing properly)

  Every woman wants to be made love to and ravished (yes, we are horny also). Most men however are not in tune enough or subtle enough to know how to open a woman (or even read when she is open) so that she is receptive. Merfi's eg case in point.
• 

  J-ex-W

  We don't cook the meat and then pepper spices on at the end, with the exception of a very few specific herbs. To me, the romance is to be peppered in minute amounts--deliberate but minute--from the very beginning. This is what lets the flavor of the romance whet the appetite, please the palate.

  Thoughtful gifts absolutely DO belong at the beginning. The thoughtful gift can be a chocolate mint candy 'cause he knows she loves these. [note: single candy, not whole bar or box---a wrapped York, not a melting Jr. Mint] Or recommending a movie choice based on what he knows she likes--volunteering to participate in entertainment on her terms. [both knowing full well that, should the dating go on long enough, she would later need to reciprocate in kind] Or thinking more deeply on something that she has already shared/ said and adding a reflection of your own on a subsequent date. [People forget that simply treating another person's thoughts and ideas as a valued thing IS, in its simplest form, a gift.]

  These little things, from the very beginning, are what IMHO breeds romance...authenticity...presence...and yes...sex.
• 

  Abandoned

  Thoughtful gifts absolutely DO belong at the beginning. The thoughtful gift can be a chocolate mint candy 'cause he knows she loves these.

  If someone were interested in getting to know you better, they'd sure have ample information with which to do that.
• 

  Nosferatu

  Merfi, thank you for your support and experience! It's stuff like this that validates what goes on in the real world, and I wish the best for you and your man!

  Most men however are not in tune enough or subtle enough to know how to open a woman (or even read when she is open) so that she is receptive.

  Agreed, and I have yet to cover body language and voice tone.

  Thoughtful gifts absolutely DO belong at the beginning. The thoughtful gift can be a chocolate mint candy 'cause he knows she loves these.

  J-ex-W, May I ask how old you are?

  Or recommending a movie choice based on what he knows she likes

  You're probably going to slam me in the future for ditching the movie idea for a first date, so I'll mention it now.... I'm NOT for movie dates until maybe the fifth or sixth date.

  volunteering to participate in entertainment on her terms.

  For the amount of input I've recieved from women on date ideas, the female usually has no clue what her terms are. If I were to ask her what she'd want to do, she'd say "I don't know, what do you want to do?" and the conversation goes back and forth with 'I don't know's.

  Or thinking more deeply on something that she has already shared/ said

  Again, you're focussing on the fact that the couple in question have been dating long enough to know something about each other. I haven't even got to the approach yet. The couple hasn't exchanged any words yet. That comes in lesson 2.
• 

  J-ex-W

  Nos----- I'm past you by ten years, and used to dating a wide range of guys, anywhere from eleven years younger on up to eleven years older. [One guy, twenty-seven years older, but very 'young' and in shape.] Only two of the guys have been older (the one by 27 and the other by 11 yrs). The rest have been mostly five to ten years younger. --In case you haven't guessed, people usually think I'm younger.

  So, I'm young enough to be in the game and old enough to know what does or not appeal beyond initial contact titters. [I'm counting on you to be mature enough to leave that word alone.] :^) I'm glad you clarified about the stage of contact you are working at (not yet to first date, barely contact made, etc.) Might want to bold-faced clarify these scenarios/ stages at the beginning, before you launch into all the other stuff. A lot of the advice is good, as long as it's presented in a timely enough sequence. Much of what we've quibbled about here, I think is related more to how fast it seems than how gauche. Present the timeline more tightly to the advice, so readers get a clearer picture of the pace/ sequence of the steps you describe.

  As for the movie...I agree. Not a first date thing, but nothing wrong as a second date thing, IMHO.
• 

  J-ex-W

  Nos--- As for the "Whaddayou wanna do? I dunno--whaddaYOU wanna do?" Jungle Book movie buzzards game [anyone remember that scene?]...this is where practical discerning--drawing out with casual questions--comes in handy. If you ascertain that she likes animals, suggest going together to the local Pet Expo or some other store that lets you look at or possibly pet animals. Even an animal shelter. They love having people come in to pet the poor caged creatures. This also addresses your concern about being played for a chump by spending any money--on the girl OR on a friend [soup nazi: NO DRINK FOR YOU!!! ].

  Seriously, creativity earns beaucoup points beyond cash, in my book.

  There's a lot here you and I find agreement with...I just have a woman's perspective to add to the mix, plus ten years' extra life/ dating/ mating experience (and, obviously, a lot of opinions).

  Seriously, if you want to help the guys...giving advice devoid of, or in serious conflict with, the feminine point of view will cause these guy to fall flat on their faces. I'm glad you've found some success along your path. Please realize a lot of it is just plain dumb luck that works in ANYBODY'S favor. Sometimes you can have success in spite of yourself. Not saying this is your case...just saying 'check-ins' are good. ["This is how it worked for me...Ladies, how would you see it?" sort of thing.]

  But by all means--keep writing. It's a good service you're doing here...entertainment in the very least...and some of this probably will help some poor hapless guy who's been stumbling over some particular points. --Not that I think you need my approval. Just letting you know, since you can't SEE the huge grin plastered across my face throughout that says, This stuff's okay...I'm just having fun with it!