Dilemma.. please help

DeusMauzzim

First of all thanks for the reactions to my first post. Very kind of you.

I've been struggling with the following question the last few months. It's about 'them' and 'us':

1. 'They' are absolutely sure they have chosen their own beliefs, have researched it themselves, are thinking for themselves, and that the organization is just the whole lot of people like them. So they expect you to respect their beliefs, not to attack them. They think they are following their own conscience.

2. 'We' know that behind all this stands the Watchtower Propaganda Machine. The decision to 'stay in the Truth' is never objective, always based on misinformation. The whole point of the system is letting people believe they have made the choice themselves. The organization is the hierarchy, the system of ideologies, not the brothers and sisters. They are more like victims of the system. So we feel an urge to point this out to them, and as a consequence, they think you are attacking them, and feel hurt. They don't see you are attacking the system, because as far as they are concerned, they are the system.

The problem: Attacking the system only backfires on the ones you love who are still in, the victims. The system itself remains unharmed.

So what's the moral thing to do? Just leave as a kind of statement? Point it out once, then move on? Blow up Brooklyn? Honestly I'm so fed up with this.. my conscience tells me I must help the ones I love.. but it is pointless.. I'm only hurting them...

Regards,

Deus Mauzzim

Vivamus

That is a dilemma i know very well.

The more you talk into them: the more they will be convinced that they have the truth. On the other hand, you, for your consience, must talk to them. So what to do?

My advice (for whats its worth): take care of YOU.

You cannot "save" any of them from themselves. when they are truly ready to know more, they will seek out the knowledge, and then you can assist. For the meantime, you need to heal, and feel comfortable again. Leaving, or coming to grips with the Watchtower organisation takes a lot of time. Don't make it your mission to free other, make it your mission to truely free yourself.

Qcmbr

Education is the true destroyer of false ideas. Education can take many forms, bookish or example based. Just as communism fell ultimately because the people wanted the western model and the state finally bankrupted itself fighting a false war so the WT society will fall. The worldly model has many flaws but it encourages free thought and that is more desirable than any mental prison while the organisation is in the throws of bankrupting itself by not instituting any regulated giving and by growing in poverty stricken areas while trying to run a business for profit. You can only sell broken ideas for so long.

As the education level of people rises they generally choose less extreme behaviours. Threatening someone on a mental (or physical) level encourages instinctive responses that do not access the critical thinking parts of the brain easily. If you attack the WT in discussion then its almost impossible for your JW associate to listen as they have moved into flight or fight mode but if you instead educate by example and love then you will stand the best chance of personal victory. If you come to your family/friend in a state of submission ('I feel stumbled by this changing doctrine/607 date/lack of spirit/etc could you help me understand') you can introduce mental wedges without them bouncing off the tower walls and you are using theocratic warfare at its most sublime.

Carmel

Ultimately Viv is spot on! take care of yourself, the sincere seekeres will out themselves. carmel

sass_my_frass

In my case, I love my family and old friends very much, but they treat me terribly and this is helping me to need them a lot less than I used to think I did. With regards to my obligation towards them; firstly I think that most people need to believe in something and that it's not fair to unseat that if they think they're happy with it. Everybody here had something happen in their lives because something took the shine off it, eg, a loved one left. So that would indeed get them thinking, but in almost every case, not enough. It is a very personal journey and as you know, any outside influence is unwelcome and in my opinion, it isn't fair on them; they have the right to believe whatever stupid thing they want and it hurts a lot before it gets better, and for some people it never does get better; some people never quite leave, and it always hurts them.

My disfellowshipping a couple of years ago has rocked my family in a huge way, and most of them have doubled their efforts to keep the faith. I think there's a faint possibility that they'll work their way out but it will take them many many years and in the meantime I have my own life to live. If they ever need me I'll be right there for them, but now my limited JW-saviour energy is spent on occasionally finding polite ways to keep them informed of my new address and that life is just fantastic actually.

Bumble Bee

Vivamus is right. JW's are taught not to listen to anything remotely apostate. If you try and tell them things before they are ready to hear it, it only pushes them deeper into the cult. You need to take this time and focus on you, on your life now that you are free. The best thing you can do is show them how wonderful your life is now that you've left (because we were always told how bad things would be if we left), and how much happier you are now.

Just be there for them, there may come a time when they are ready to listen to you.

BB

Nellie

I too really understand your dilemma. I remember when I was "in" hearing that the Society was a part of the UN. I will never forget my reaction - I turned to my husband and son and said, "That's apostate propaganda! The Society would NEVER be a part of the UN!" That is the mindset of most active witnesses. Even when the TRUTH is shared with them, their minds cannot accept it as truth, because it contradicts what they believe.

It's not that they don't hear it - but they CAN'T hear it - they're minds are programmed to not accept opposition against the Mother Organization. Until they allow themselves to listen, anything you say will be rejected. Don't take it personally - they're just not ready.

What you can say is this - I understand that you don't agree with the decisions I've made. I also know that it's futile for me to try to explain myself, because all we'll do is argue. Please accept the fact that this decision was not made lightly on my part - it was made after many hours of prayerful consideration and research. If the day ever comes when you honestly want to know what led me to reach this decision, I will be happy to share it with you. Until then, understand that I will always love you.

garybuss

There's no dilemma, just good sense. I have a friend who's a born again Baptist. I'm absolutely sure he's deluded when he thinks ghosts talk to him and his god walked on water, but I more want him as a friend than to convince him his sacred beliefs are a dead man's delusions.

I don't have a dog in that fight. Every time I try to convince you that one of your strongly held beliefs is a delusion, I'm gonna loose, cause you'll take your belief over me every time. I have the same topic with two of my friends who self medicate on vitamins and roots and go to a chiropractor when they get a sinus infection. There's nothing I can say that would change those two.

mama1119

I agree with Vivamus. They have to want to know, otherwise you will just reinforce their resolve to stay. Don't lose hope though, I know quite a few that were very oppossed to hearing the real truth, and are now completely out.

dobbie

Vivamus is right. And i've found that by my leaving certain ones who weren't considered all that strong in it have renewed their efforts and have actually got stronger in it - damn!The more you talk to them about it the more they'll stick to it, after all they are trained to expect opposition and people telling them the society etc is wrong aren't they, so i think when we do try and talk to them to show them things etc they are already programmed to turn from us and dismiss whatever we might say. All we can do however frustrating, is wait and be there for those that may hopefully want help in the end. Nellie's right too, say anything against it, however correct it may be nad a little 'apostate' siren will be going off in their heads!

Dilemma.. please help

Share this