A JWD collective view on hunger, injustice, prejudice, morals..

by jgnat 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Zarco asked this question on another thread. SHOULD JWD have a collective view on these burning issues? My answer, definitely NOT. Zarco's argument for the collective view was as follows:

    How do you make our families better, the world better. An interchange of ideas is a step, but collective beliefs lead to change. Do you not want change? Is what we currently have the best that it can be?

    This is the way I see it. Organic growth is nearly always superior. We see this in nature. Whereas mankind tends to FARM, for instance plant a hillside with genetically identical pulp-and-paper producers, nature tends to go all specialized and micro-interesting. Old logs house chicadees and woodpeckers. The soil, a teeming mass of biologicals, bugs, and worms and things. The complex system is self-sustaining and renewing.

    I am convinced that people, too, are best left alone to pursue love, happiness, and long life. On their own, they will find it better than being fed from an identical docrine (think Mao, Stalin, Hitler, and that Cambodian communist).

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    I don't know, JGnat, I think it would be fun if everyone thought just like me! ;-)

    No seriously, I completely agree with you. I've grown so much here exactly because there ISN'T a collective-thought mentality. Hell, there are even people here that keep us (more or less) honest about Watchtower bashing.

    Let us unite in remaining diversified!

    Dave

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    While I like to argue about factual evidence on the existence of god, I agree thus far that a collective effort to get everyone to agree on subjective matters would do more harm then good. I am not saying that if I were world ruler, I wouldn't be too bad at it! For one thing, I wouldn't feel the need to send my firstborn to die for everyone because I failed to tell Adam and Eve that Satan existed! I would give them another chance, and a news bulliten about that bully Satan....

    In any case, it is good to be involved in your local and national communities, esp democracy. Express yourself! That is what freeness of speech is all about.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Welcome to Sunday at the Forum - jgnat!

    I figured you've been very busy with your work week and family. Debussy's "Sacred and Profane Dances" bouncing about the FM waves presently. You said I had an odd sense of humor re: my comments on Beethoven's decomposing an old body [of work]. Strange how our sense of recall works. Decomposition and Diversity. Your point on old logs and bugs and birds - excellent, and fully sufficient, as well as all-encompassing.
    Then I thought of that glorious film, "A Room With a View." Lucy Honeychurch was held in the eyes of her intended, Cecil, to be like a Botticelli, I believe, or a Leonardo - a work of art. An individual held captive within unbreakable confines and acceptable societal mores. Yet the man who truly loved and pursued her [played by Julian Sands] said to Lucy, 'I want you to have your own thoughts while I hold you in my arms.' My point - we can have diversity and beauty and function without all the good-ideas-turned-bad-soul-destoying human organizations. Even CTR said that the endeavor to compel all men to think alike on all matters resulted in the great apostasy [something to that effect].
    Is your alias in any way akin to that inexorable force - JaGaNnATh?

    Coco

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote

    Long live anarchy and democracy!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Beautiful replies, all. Complex, my moniker is not that complex. My name stands for little fly, as in the "gadfly of Athens". I like to buzz around the heads of the pompous.

    Where's Zarco?

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I rediscovered a few paragraphs that describes the symphony I feel. Tell me what you think.

    "...the flats of the river's floodplain, several square miles, are dense with an even growth of willow, six to eight feet high. The undersides of the long, narrow leaves are a lighter shade of green than that above; their constant movement, a synaptic fury in the wind, makes them seem all the more luminous. Moose are bedded down among them, beyond the reach of our senses. Their tracks say so.

    The river's banks, flooded with an aureate storm light underneath banks of nimbus cloud, are bright enough to astonish us - or me at least. My companion's anttention is divided - the direction of the canoe, the stream of clues that engage a wildlife biologist: the number of raven nests in that cliff, a torn primary feather which reaches us like a dry leaf on the surface of the water. Canada goose.

    What is stunning about the river's banks on this particular stormy afternoon is not the vegetation (the willow, alder, birch, black cottonwood, and spruce are common enough) but its presentation. The wind, like some energetic dealier in rare fabrics, folds back branches and ruffles the underside of leaves to show the pattern - and the shorter willows forward; the birch, taller, set farther back on the hills. The soft green furze of budding alder heightens the contrast between gray-green willow stems and white birch bark. All of it is rhythmic in the wind, each species bending as its diameter, its surface area, the strength of its fibers dictate. Behind this, a backdrop of hills: open country recovering from an old fire, dark islands of spurce in an ocean of labrador tea, lowbush cranberry, fireweed, and wild primrose, each species of leaf the invention of a different green: lime, moss, forest, jade. This is not to mention the steel gray of the clouds, the balmy arctic temperature, our clear suspension in the canoe over the stony floor of the river, the ground-in dirt of my hands, the flutelike notes of a Swainson's thrush, or anything else that informs the scene." - Crossing Open Ground: Yukon-Charley: The Shape of Wilderness by Barry Lopez.

  • bebu
    bebu

    No, I don't think a JWD collective view is even possible!

    Diversity for its own sake doesn't impress or interest me much. But diversity is itself a very helpful and interesting thing if those diverse people engage in honest and respectful discussions, and are seriously interested in living wisely. Not simply 'information' or points of view changes, but we can refine our own understanding of what is good, better, and best. We can learn to be more careful at discernment. Hopefully, we grow closer together through the experience.

    Not everyone values living wisely, though, which throws a wrench into the middle of it all!

    2 cents for ya,

    bebu

    who thinks that 'jgnat' is actually pretty clever!

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    jgnat:

    The fact that we can't form a collective effort to straighten out the worlds problems is just a resignation to our doom. When the best we can do is leave it up to each individual without any coordinating control then we will simply destroy ourselves. So we have basically two paths to self-destruction. When things get really scary people get together

    However, I prefer the path you suggest. It might avoid the inevitable a little longer. But if things get bad enough, the crazy hitlers start popping up anyhow.

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    we can't form a collective effort to straighten out the worlds problems is just a resignation to our doom. When the best we can do is leave it up to each individual without any coordinating control then we will simply destroy ourselves.

    I'm not so convinced of that. I think if we give people the environment to pursue what is happy and true, most will. The great mass of civilization can carry the odd crazy. Most people now believe the earth itself deserves protecting, an alien thought say, in the middle ages.

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