Conflicting conclusions.

by Blueblades 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    Two books that I just finished reading come to conflicting conclusions. The first one is by John McGraw, Brain and Belief. The second one is by Dr. Don Morse, Searching For Eternity. John McGraw possesses degrees in psychology, philosophy and religious studies. Dr. Don Morse is Professor Emeritus at Temple University in Philadelphia. He has graduate degrees in dentistry, endodontics, microbiology, clinical psychology, and has done research involving hypnosis, meditation, acupuncture, and brain wave synchronizers. He is presently Editor-in-Chief of The Journal of Religion and Psychical Research.

    John McGraw concludes that the human soul is a myth. It teaches wonderful truths: each of us is more than a body that persists for a few decades. Each of usis the act of love, the act of memory, the act of individuality, the act of enlightenment, the human being. Weare each vitals links in a chain of family and history. But like all myths, the myth of the soul must yield to modernity. We are not ghosts. We will not live forever. We are noble, ingenious, but wholly mortal animals...Man has known, at some level, the truth about the human soul,-and the certainty of individual mortality,-for a very long time.Those who stubbornly fight for the myth of the soul deceive themselves and mislead others.

    Dr. Don Morse concludes that, after vast research that led him through the entire realm of science and religious belief, that some form of an afterlife must exist.

    Which is wishful thinking, which is actuality? And so it goes, two conflicting conclusions from two well educated men who have examined and researched the brain and beliefs. I must say that I believe that there is some form of an afterlife. Do you find yourself with conflicting conclusions after having read or studied different books on life and death?

    Blueblades

  • tall penguin
    tall penguin

    "Do you find yourself with conflicting conclusions after having read or studied different books on life and death?"

    All the time. Which is why I'm more inclined these days to suspend my need for belief and/or truth and just be in each moment as it comes to me.

    tall penguin

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas
    Which is wishful thinking, which is actuality?

    Two sides of the same spinning coin, they are both wishful thinking. Actuality is simply not found within the imitations of words and thoughts.

    I strongly suggest we will never ever find the truth we seek in a book, belief, or in someone or something seen as separate. It will be discovered as the most real, intimate and immediate sense of self and being, or not at all.

    j

  • trevor
    trevor

    This is what it all comes down to in the end. Do we survive death in some form. Is the ‘sense of being,' that James refers to, possible without a physical body.

    I have stopped trying to come to conclusions. I concentrate on the awesome reality that I, along with all humans, am here experiencing existence in the present moment. Being aware of that privilege gives me a sense of gratitude and humility.

    It would not be true to say that I am waiting to find out what happens after death, because I am not waiting. I am enjoying existing now and if my awareness ends I will obviously not be aware of it. So why worry?

    trevor

  • Frannie Banannie
    Frannie Banannie

    I'm not a professional and many here would probably chalk my experiences up to lunacy or feeblemindedness, but my own experiences are all I have to go on.

    Soon after exiting the WTS, I had a "near death" experience. It was an attempted suicide in which I almost achieved my goal at the time. I had stopped breathing when the EMT's arrived and my heart had stopped. They used the paddles. My brain experienced total nothingness,so I figure the brain's acknowledgement of events upon death is nada, just as we were taught.

    However.......another experience I had a few years later, while still steeped deeply in WTS and scriptural doctrine (we sleep, we're conscious of nothing at all and animals don't have an afterlife) served to shake up all my understanding where an afterlife is concerned. I wasn't searching for this experience, nor was I expecting it. It came totally out of the blue and in an unexpected manner. My daughter moved away, leaving her cat (outside) and the cat decided to adopt me in a big way. Misty would climb up on my lap and want to sit on my chest when I tried to read the newspaper or any reading material. She was very loving and would always nuzzle my face, neck and ears for attention, purring constantly. And she always knew when I was arriving home from work and would greet me at the door, meowing to beat the band.

    One morning, I treated her for fleas which she'd picked up in her outdoor carousing and BOY! Was she huffy with me! She wouldn't have anything to do with me and went to the back bedroom to sit on the top of the dresser and sulk in silence. That night I went to work, as usual. I was a caregiver for an elderly lady with Alzheimer's and later that night after the lady was settled in for the night, I lay down on the sofa in her living room to catch "40 winks." As I lay there on my side facing the back of the sofa, I began relaxing and closed my eyes. Suddenly, I felt something land on my chest between me and the sofa back. The sound of loud purring and the feel of something nuzzling my neck, ears and face startled me and I opened my eyes to see if somehow a strange cat had come into the house, though we would have been unaware of it's method for doing so. I opened my eyes to see....nothing. But the pressure of the approximate weight of a cat and the loud purring and nuzzling continued for about a minute, gradually waning until it was no longer there. The presence was gone. I wondered about it, thinking it a very strange occurrence and having absolutely NO understanding of the why's and wherefore's of this incident.

    The next morning when I arrived home from work, Misty didn't greet me at the door. I figured at first she was still mad at me over the de-fleaing procedure the previous day. I looked all over the house for her and called her, thinking she'd come out, even if reluctantly, for food. She didn't I found her on the back bedroom floor, deceased. Rigor mortis had already set in, so I estimated the time of death to be the previous night around the time I was going to catch "40 winks." From this experience, I put the "2+2" together that were the only equations presented to me as evidence. Very obviously what I'd been taught by the WTS and from the scriptures wasn't totally true. I believe that Misty made a "visit" to me when she died.....or at least her "spirit" did....the part of her that loved me and wanted me to know that she forgave me and still loved me before she moved on.

    So, Blueblades, I have to agree with Dr. Don Morse. There is definitely an afterlife, since it exists for animals. I'm sure that humans could expect no less. It would be unnatural for humans to be cognitively aware of this feature of our total being, since the brain, ergo our thought processes, die with the body.

    Frannie

  • RAF
    RAF

    Religious belief stick on the idea of an afterlife and therefore makes us wonder what it is exactly. but even when it comes to the soul nothing is very clear about the how ... it's only about being satisfied (paradise) or not (hell) or simply dead

    Now if our essence is a part of an whole we have different situations possible : each onces essence with it's own spirit (dead or alive) those are the 3 I can think about by now

    • if with essential even with no total and personal memory or at least a fondamental spiritual state : it's a soul
    • if essence with its spirit without essential memory but dedicated to become something else involving its spirit : it's some kind spirited essence as material left to interact or not with an other or several spirited essence materials or not (with a spirit = swich on = alive / without a spirit = swich off = dead but maby still usefull by essence).
    • if with memory but separated in different matérial nor essences : it is still about soul by spirit but just separated by essence in a sharing systeme

    Now the question is what is important in every case = to like to share (many ways are possible in our future even as dust) cause it is (to me) how essence works as a whole (it's a sharing evolving systeme)

    Now many people have experienced very specific things (sorcery, different kind of ghosts*, prémonitory dreams ... well lots of things wich could have something to do with good spirited and bad spirited essence. Something strong that we have no idea what it is all about but percetible in some ways and circumptances. What can we say? It's all false (since I've experienced sorcery and not only alone as a witness on the whole history concerned) I have to say that, from that you just can't go back to say it's all fake or imagination that would be a denial.

    We have differents state in our human life but even what we are composed with had another life (somehow) anyway (as material or anything).

  • Paralipomenon
    Paralipomenon

    Personally I think there is enough evidence of a spirit realm. People seem to ignore how a ouija board works and out of body experiences, speaking in tongues, possessions and such.

    Really science tries to make up explanations for it, but you can tell that they are really grasping at straws.

    The big question for me is, what is the spirit realm? Is is part of the afterlife or just another level of existence? People think of the afterlife is black and white, good versus evil. What if it was just as crazy and mixed up as our world? What if you died and released your "soul" only to find yourself not in heaven or hell?

    People carry their own corporeal beliefs over to the spirit world and try to act on them.

    Science can't disprove a spirit realm, and religion can't prove one exists or that we are part of it after death. Just too much to know and too much to guess at.

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