annointed, part of this world, war, signs - HELP!

by concerned fiance 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • concerned fiance
    concerned fiance

    Hi, in a continued effort to educate my fiance and open his eyes, I am trying to understand how to refute certain things he has said and get proof of some of the issues that I have read on various threads here over the past week. Please, please, can people answer back on how I should respond...
    1. In Franz's book, he doesn't come out and say that he was one of the annointed, but yet he accepted a position as a member of the GB (my fiance spoke to Franz last week and asked him a question regarding being annointed, to which Franz answered "Well, I had the a heavenly hope that I was annointed.." Well, that threw my fiance off and now he doubts whether Franz ever truly believed he was annointed. I have told him that noone can ever prove if they were annointed, but he says that the annointed "just know, they have that feeling and know without a doubt that they will be in heaven with God and Jesus." To which I answered taht I could wake up tomorrow and have the same feeling - he got frustrated.

    2. He keeps harping on the fact that JWs is the only religion that does not go to war with one another, love one another, and don't partake in matters of the world (Part of the world). I have told him that the scripture can be interpreted in so many different ways. I mentioned that I had seen someplace (on these posts somewhere) that a JW was running for President in a country in Africa? and that JWs somewhere else have voted...can somebody PLEASE tell me how I can find proof of this (ie newspaper article or something), he said that would be big, since he has always been taught that JWs are not to partake in any matters of the nation, etc....he thinks this is parallel to the first century Christians that came right after Christ and so it must be the right thing.

    3. He keeps talking about the last year's events as signs of the end and is so scared....

    Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

  • biblexaminer
    biblexaminer

    Well... you really have your hands full.

    If he joins, then your life is sunk. I am being blunt.

    I am a JW serving in a congregation in Canada. I want out. My family life would implode if my wife were even to find out that I read here... never mind post here... and there's more... the books.. the mail ...

    You are in a position to act. You are at a fork in the road. take the wrong fork and you are finished.

    Either he learns the truth, or you should call it off.

    If you get married, and he joins, taking into account that you are educating yourself.. thenat some not to distant point, your marriage will come to the same painful fork in the road and there won't be enough room on either road for two persons.

    Keep on him if you really love him, but hold off the nup's.

  • wannahelp
    wannahelp

    There is a help line you can call..

    1-800-WHY-1914

    Ask for Marylin to call you back.. About 9 months ago, when I was trying to help my friend "see the truth" I found this.. Marylin is a great person, an EX-JW who is now a counselor..

    See if he will talk to her (Of course, she is an apostate, but then again, so is Ray Franz)!!!

    If nothing else, you should talk to her, as she can probably help you try and reach him...

    Good luck!!!

  • concerned fiance
    concerned fiance

    thank you so much for the help line number, i will try that.

    any luck that anyone out there has a link for proof of the JW running for President or JWs voting?

  • NameWithheld
    NameWithheld

    On the #1 point - trying to debate about a 'feeling' is usless. You cannot 'prove' annointing, and in fact this causes quite a problem for the poor poor elders in congo's where people 'profess' to be annointed and partake at memorial - do the elders count them or not. so in the end I guess the elders decide who is and is not. As far as Ray Franz goes, when he was a JW he partook of the memorial and he still professes to have a heavanly hope so what more is there to say on that matter?

    #2 - that's simply untrue. Typical JW propaganda, they are told over and over "we are the only ones who <insert soemthing here>" that they beleive it. AFAIK, Quakers don't join military, Mormons?, I'm sure if you wanted to you could find other religions that hold to the same "stay out of the world" beliefs. It's easy to stick your head in the sand and say "JW's are the only ones doing ...." and NONE of those people have REALLY checked out the alternatives.

    3# - how do you fight fear? I don't know. People raised in this cult have an irrational fear of death/the end. But ask him if when going to JW's did he ever feel in his heart that he was good enough to 'make it' thru armageddon? I know many of us (me included) never felt we were good enough. Why would god pick a religion that oppressed people into that frame of mind? Why would god say "Get 10 hours a month or die"?

  • detective
    detective

    Concerned,
    Try the United Nations thing. Have the website and phone number ready. It is so significant. Read the UN/NGO thread. It's big news. And it's a real eye-opener!

  • Trevor Scott
    Trevor Scott

    concerned:

    There are links regarding the African JW presidential candidate at Kent's site: http://watchtower.observer.org

    Also here is a link to a document at Randy's site on the recent voting issue: http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/voting2.htm

    Also I recommend looking into the United Nations ngo matter. Why has the Watchtower Society committed to support the work of the organization they claim to be the scarlet beast of Revelation, and the enemy of God? They condemn "false religion" for supporting the UN out of one side of their mouth, while they support the UN themselves out of the other side of their mouth:

    “The UN, then, is actually a revival of the scarlet-colored wild beast.” (Revelation – Its Grand Climax At Hand, pg. 248)

    “Shortly, “crazed” members of the UN will be maneuvered by Jehovah to turn on false religion...” ('The Watchtower' magazine, May 1 1997, pg. 17,18)

    “...the United Nations, “a scarlet-colored wild beast” that is the image of Satan’s bloodstained political system.” ('Mankind's Search for God', pg. 370)

    (The following excerpt is from a letter I wrote to some jw family and friends, regarding the WTS association with the UN as an ngo...)

    The role of these non-governmental organizations that are associated with the United Nations is defined in UN resolution 1296 (XLIV) of May 23, 1968, which states that an NGO “…shall undertake to support the work of the United Nations and to promote knowledge of its principles and activities.”

    Additional requirements and responsibilities for these NGOs are defined in official UN documents. According to these documents, a non-governmental organization that is associated with the UN must:

    “Share the ideals of the UN Charter.”

    “Disseminate information about the UN to their membership, thereby building knowledge of and support for the organization at the grassroots level. This dissemination includes: publicizing UN activities around the world on such issues as peace and security, economic and social development, human rights, humanitarian affairs and international law; promoting UN observances and international years established by the General Assembly to focus world attention on important issues facing humanity.”

    “Operate solely on a not-for-profit basis.”

    “Have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences…”

    “Have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins, and pamphlets…”

    Here are a couple more of the responsibilities of an NGO associated with the UN:

    “…disseminating information and mobilizing public opinion in support of the UN and its Specialized Agencies.”

    “Associated NGOs are expected to devote a portion of their information programmes to promoting knowledge of the United Nations' principles and activities.”

    TS,

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    This was sent to me by (((((((((Nelly))))))))..

    In the wake of Sept. 11, pacifists, others talk of confusion, anger, forgiveness, defense

    Sunday, September 30, 2001

    By Ann Rodgers-Melnick, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

    From their international headquarters at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge, hundreds of Jehovah's Witnesses watched aghast as the flaming World Trade Center imploded and thousands of terrified New Yorkers, covered in white ash, ran toward them across the bridge.
    Prevented by faith from donating blood or even flying the flag, "But the larger contribution is what we have been able to do spiritually," said J.R. Brown, director of public information for Jehovah's Witnesses.

    "You see it in people's eyes, hear it in their conversation. They want to know why it happened and what is going to happen next. Of course, we feel the Bible answers these questions."

    The Witnesses are one of many pacifist traditions who practice Jesus' call to turn the other cheek. Rooted in the Anabaptist wing of the Protestant Reformation, they oppose war under any circumstance. While the others don't share the Witnesses' apocalyptic interpretations of the Bible, they do share the desire to heal wounds.

    Among Pittsburgh's pacifists, the Quakers have opened the Friends Meetinghouse in Shadyside at 7:30 p.m. Monday through Saturday for silent worship and verbal reflection on peace.
    "It's a discussion of hopes and fears," said Darryl Phillips, the clerk of meeting. "Our belief in nonviolence goes back 300 or more years. Now is the time to apply it."

    The Rev. Luke Schrock-Hurst of the Pittsburgh Mennonite Church said nothing when a neighbor demanded to know where his flag was. His neighbor already knew the Anabaptist belief that, as citizens of the kingdom of God, Christians should not salute the symbols of other kingdoms. But Schrock-Hurst thought of replying with the song, "Love is a flag flown high."
    A few members of the church he co-pastors with his wife in Squirrel Hill have flown flags since Sept. 11. Rather than criticize, he suggests putting a candle in the window.
    "It's a sign of hope and of mourning, and of calling for God's presence in the midst of darkness," he said.
    He started a class on how to respond to war preparations.
    "Many of our people will have a much deeper need to be processing what is happening with neighbors and co-workers," he said.

    The Rev. Thimagar Sitther, pastor of the Asian Indian Christian Church of Pittsburgh, is Mennonite, but his congregation is not. Most have great pride in their adopted nation and are ready to defend it with force.
    "People probably know my position, and some of them have talked to me about it. At the moment, we have agreed to disagree," Sitther said.
    He has preached on forgiveness and reconciliation, but: "I also know there is a terrible anger. People want to be able to say that our nation did something about this."

    Praying for wisdom
    After Sept. 11, American flags were erected at seven Bruderhof communities across the country, including two in Fayette County, for the first time in their history. They flew at half-staff in a gesture of mourning and solidarity. But it did not mean that the Bruderhof, which was forced out of Nazi Germany for its pacifism, has changed.
    Nonviolence "has become more relevant since Sept. 11. Truth never changes under any circumstances," said Johann Christoph Arnold, pastor of the Bruderhof communities.
    Yet the attack on New York was devastating for Arnold, who lives 90 minutes away in Rifton, N.Y. One of his closest friends was the Rev. Mychal Judge, the Catholic fire chaplain killed while giving last rites to a dying rescue worker.
    Judge and Arnold had traveled three times to Northern Ireland to rally Protestants and Catholics in terror-wracked neighborhoods to pray together for peace. They were scheduled to make a similar trip to Israel in October to work for reconciliation among Israelis and Arabs.

    Anabaptists have a deep historical distrust of Catholicism because Catholics once burned them as heretics. But the Bruderhof was so moved by Judge's faith that they asked him to celebrate a Mass at the Rifton Bruderhof for local Catholics.
    "So the loss of Father Mychal was a very, very personal loss for our whole community," Arnold said.
    Despite the call to war, Arnold sees signs of hope. He sees people being kinder to each other on the street. When he speaks at inner-city public schools on nonviolence, God is no longer shut out of the discussion. Arnold applauded President Bush's call for a national day of prayer and remembrance.
    "We are praying for all these young men who have been deployed abroad," he said.
    "We are really praying for our president, for wisdom and leadership. That man has to do what he has to do. Government was ordained by God to punish the wicked and uphold the good. We feel that our greatest service is to pray for our government. But our stand on nonviolence is just as strong as it was 80 years ago when we started."

    'A just war'
    The Seventh-Day Adventist Church is headquartered in Silver Spring, Md., 15 miles from where the airliner crashed into the Pentagon. The Navy chief of chaplains and his deputy are Adventists. The deputy was on duty Sept. 11 and rushed out to tend the wounded. At the same time, the Adventists dispatched a military chaplain to New York to give local clergy a crash course in crisis counseling.
    Adventists do not carry arms, but encourage service as battlefield medics and chaplains. Inspired by Desmond Doss, an Adventist medic who received the Medal of Honor for rescuing 70 wounded men under fire during a battle on Okinawa, the church established the Medical Cadet Corps to train high school students as medics.
    The corps has diminished since the draft ended. But amid talk of future terrorist attacks, Chaplain Richard Stenbakken, director of Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries, believes that it may see a resurgence as people train for homeland first aid.

    There isn't anything the JW's have not stolen from other religions.

    As far as God's name Jehovah, the Jay P. Green Bible has the Name Jehovah numerous times, and the JW's bought a Bible with that name in it in their early years...more on that in another post.

    People have been refusing military service since at least the days of the Roman Empire. The pilgrims coming over here from Europe a couple of hundred years ago had that problem...long before JW.

    Issues with blood transfusions is a Christian Scientist thing as well I believe....and their religion has roots going back to the 1800's --before IBSA or JW.

    And the 'light gets brighter and brighter' nonsense was stolen from the Millerites/Second Day Adventists/Seventh Day Adventists as well.

    As far as the 'ONE' religion that 'does all these things', there's no such d--n thing in the Bible. More JW propaganda.

    As far as 'preaching the good news to all the earth' Jesus sent them out in twos. Period. I'm afraid the Catholic church has them beat by a thousand years or so.

    Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

  • concerned fiance
    concerned fiance

    Thanks dungbeetle and nelly, great article and lots to think about.

    Is it true that there is new light in regards to JW's position on voting and service in the military (in some way)?

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    In 1950 the Jehovah’s Witnesses decried the United Nations as a ‘graven image’ with which Jehovah would not share his glory. (WT 3/1/50)
    In 1979, the Jehovah Witnesses stated that to join the YMCA was apostasy; even paying a one-time fee for some service or article was questionable (WT 1/1/79)

    In 1995, the Jehovah’s Witnesses stated that they viewed the United Nations the same as any other governmental body of the world. (WT 10/1/95)

    In 1991, the Jehovah’s Witness applied for and received NGO status with the United Nations, agreeing to:
    1) share in the ideals of the UN charter
    2) have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues
    3) conduct effective information programs about UN activities

    The United Nations has stated that for an NGO to expel/shun its members for accepting blood medically, serving alternative military service, not resisting a rape, voting, is a violation of its agreement with the UN and it could be forcibly ‘disassociated’ from the UN by the UN itself. The following policy changes have taken place within the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization:

    3/8/93 Resistance during a rape/molestation now a conscience issue
    5/1/96 Alternative service now a conscience issue
    11/1/99 Voting now a conscience issue
    6/15/00 Most blood forms as medical treatment now a conscience issue

    This is NOT 'new light'. This is a RETURN TO FORMER POSITIONS held by the WT. Not even sure this information will help you. But it's here if you want it.

    Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit