When Jesus answered his Disciples’ question about the sign of the Temple’s destruction, they coupled it with the end of the age (aeon) because the end of the Temple would clearly indicate that the Jewish Age had come to its end.
Likewise, the Disciples believed that this momentous event – the destruction of the Temple – would herald the appearance of Messiah in power. They did not recognize that, instead of coming as a mighty conquering warrior, the Messiah had arrived as a babe. They did not recognize that, instead of coming with almighty power, crushing the nations before it, the Kingdom had come quietly as a farmer sowing seed, and not as a reaper.
They had no idea Jesus was going away. Since he was already with them, the Disciples’ expectation was that Jesus was finally speaking about that great manifestation of power they had long been anticipating. Later, just before Jesus was transported to heaven, the Disciples were still asking him “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6, NIV). To which Jesus answered: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority”.
And as he answered his Disciples’ question about the destruction of the Temple, the “Parousia” and the “End of the Age”, Jesus warned them about deceivers who would claim to be Christ (the Anointed One) pointing to wars and stories of wars.
Never did Jesus speak about the size of those wars, their length, scope or number of casualties. All he said was “see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet”.
They would hear about wars simply because “nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom”. Things such as “food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another” are not a sign of the death of an Age but are of the very first signs of the labor pains of a birth.
But Jesus did give his Disciples the “sign” of the powerful coming they were expecting and hoping for: “The sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other”. (Matt 24:30, 31, NIV).
Jesus gave the Sign
by Doug Mason 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Doug Mason
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tetrapod.sapien
But Jesus did give his Disciples the “sign” of the powerful coming they were expecting and hoping for: “The sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other”. (Matt 24:30, 31, NIV).
sounds like one NASTY muva of a U.F.O.!!
tetra
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Spirit Axal
He shall not be unidentified, he will be identified of who he is and you will know.
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Pahpa
The Watchtower has changed its teaching about "the end" over the years. It now divides the beginning of the "end" when Christ begins to rule (1914) and the "end" when he comes in judgment in the future. However, it is clear to any reader of the Bible that his "parousia" comes when he appears in the heavens with his angels. (Matthew 24:30) The warning is clear that those teaching a secret presence would be "false Christs and false prophets." (Vss. 23-27) The other events previously described were to occur down through history: "Such things must happen, but THE END IS STILL TO COME." (Vs. 6)
The Bible Students of Russell's time were largely influenced by the Second Adventists. They had preconceived ideas of how the scriptures should be fulfilled. They would then pick and choose those scriptures that seemed to conform to these ideas. The Watchtower has continued this trend to this day often going to ridiculous lengths in its interpretation of prophecy as related to its own organizational history.
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beginnersmind
They would hear about wars simply because “nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom”. Things such as “food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another” are not a sign of the death of an Age but are of the very first signs of the labor pains of a birth.
Doug interesting points you make. On the point quoted above wasnt everything (conclusion of sysem of things & sign of his presence) connected ie in the same time period? You say its not a sign of a 'death' but of a 'birth' but to me its just figurative of the beginning of sufferings using the analogy of birth pains and that would mean there were more greater sufferings ahead. Further after Jesus talked about wars, famines & earthquakes he said they were a "beginning" and then went into more detail on other signs including the sun being darkened etc then gave the illustration of the fig tree and when we see these things happening 'know that he is near at the door." etc
I guess a question i could ask myself is when the disciples asked Jesus the question about Jerusalems destruction and then the sign of his presence and conclusion of the system of things did Jesus in his reply seperate those things or was his reply to the whole of that question? But v29 of Matt 24 says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days..." seemingly linking the previous verses of the chapter to the signs of Jesus coming. If he didnt mean that what did he mean when he said "those days"? Would like to hear what anybody else thinks about these points.
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Doug Mason
Jesus said these events are like the start of birth pains, even before life begins, not the sign of an age’s passing. (Mark 13:8)
As the Watchtower says “[The Disciples] did not appreciate that [Jesus] would not sit on an earthly throne; they had no idea that he would rule as a glorious spirit from the heavens and therefore did not know that his second presence would be invisible. … Jesus did not answer in so many words that he would be invisibly present, but he outlined evidences that would make his presence recognizable, whether visible or invisible.” (The Watchtower. Questions from Readers, September 15, 1964, pages 575 – 576.) -
Doug Mason
My totally theocentric soteriology casts its shadow on everything else, including my understanding of the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). God offers total salvation based on the completed work of his son, Jesus Christ. I cannot explain, I only know that it is so. It is a gift that cannot be earned. I accept this in faith. This is the only Gospel. If I do not fully understand everything Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse, this does not concern me, since it is not the gospel.
I am concerned at the WTBTS’s quite incorrect exegesis (look for that word in the WTS’s books and magazines) and at its focus on only the one version of the Olivet Discourse. (They probably do this because the parallel versions do not employ the word “parousia”, which the Christadelphians gave to CTR as meaning “presence”.)
My interest is to use the WTs’s basic errors with this chapter in Matthew to help dismantle the WTS’s authority. This hopefully will allow people to be open to the true message of the Gospel.
The WTS points to wars while Jesus warns against people who claim to come in his name and point to wars. (Jesus never mentioned size, length, number of nations, number of casualties, etc.) He said these events are like the start of birth pains, even before life begins, not the sign of an age’s end (Mark 13:8). It is important to read all three versions of the Olivet Discourse.
Jesus answered his disciples’ question about the destruction of the Temple. He gave them a sign: “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. (Luke 21: 20 – 21, NIV. Also Matthew 24:15 – 16; Mark 13:14)
He made it very clear that all of these happenings would take place within the time of his own generation: “I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matthew 24:34, NIV; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32).
Later, Jesus’ last words to his disciples included: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority”. At another time he said: “ ‘A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.’ Jesus then left them and went away.” (Matthew 16:4, NIV). Those last seven words are significant.
Following his description of the Olivet Discourse, Matthew’s Gospel groups several parables that Jesus gave about “being forever ready”. As a comment, I note that with the Parable of the Virgins, when the Bridegroom arrived at “midnight” this did not indicate the end of the day, since for the Jews, the day ends and begins at sunset.
While Matthew collects several parables with a similar meaning at the conclusion of the Discourse, Mark uses only one at that time, and Luke (ch. 12) places them in a totally different context. In Matthew, Jesus has an audience of only a few disciples, whereas in Luke, Jesus has a great crowd also in attendance.
Is there a second fulfillment across the span of time, or a third one at time’s end; with maybe another at the end of the Millennium? I don’t know and it does not worry me. History records failed expectations strewn along the full length of its path. That should be our lesson.
The story of the Olivet Discourse played its part by preparing God’s faithful people in Jerusalem from certain death.
The WTBTS throws a distraction from the true gospel, playing one note on a single stringed guitar, using false dates and a false exegesis. -
greendawn
I think there the gospel writers mixed up two different story lines one about the destruction of the Jewish polity as occured in 70AD and another about the destruction of human government globally which will occur at a future unknown time, far or near nobody can know at present. The first would be perfectly predictable to let the Christians escape. The second is totally unpredictable to keep the disciples perpetually on alert and waiting they don't know when the master will return.