There are several things....

by sweetone2377 8 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sweetone2377

  that I've been thinking about lately.

  Since Jesus was a PERFECT man, how can anyone realistically be expected to follow in his shoes? Why use him as an example of standing up to tests and remaining faithful? We are, after all, IMPERFECT humans.

  C.T. Russell consulted other religions to help him find the "truth." Why are the r&f forbidden to follow in their founder's footsteps?

  In leafing through the Proclaimers book last night, I noticed that all references made of someone remaining loyal is worded that they remained loyal to the organization, not specifically to God. What's wrong with that picture? And why do these, "faithful" witnesses not see it?

  Jeremiah 10:23 says the way of humans is not in their control, they cannot direct their steps. Then why are the r&f to put all their faith in the GB, a group of imperfect human men?

  I came upon all this last night during about 3 minutes of reading. Now tell me that the WTS does not brainwash their "followers." It is plain to see that the WTS is encouraging them to put their faith in trust in man, not God.

  I don't know if all this has been brought up before but it's just a few things that I started thinking about last night.

  "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." ~ Matt. 5:6
• 

  think41self

  Hi Sweetone,

  These are excellent points, and it doesn't matter if someone brought it up before. There are new people here all the time and none of us can read ALL the threads so don't ever worry about bringing something up that you'd like to talk about.

  I have wondered many times about the whole idea of God expecting us to do things we are not capable of doing. Even when I was a child, and I would hear at the meetings that I was supposed to love Jehovah more than anyone, even my parents...that puzzled me. I asked my Mom about it, telling her with all the innocence of a child " But Mom, I don't love Jehovah more than you! I've never even SEEN him!" Of course my mom tried to explain it, but it never seemed reasonable to me that God would REALLY expect that from us when he didn't make us that way. Just one example.

  As far as not being able to really examine the teachings of the society to see if they are true, that is actually a very clever control technique they've got going on. And it sure as hell works. I know people who've been inactive for years who still won't pick up an article or book about the witnesses because they had the fear of apostates drummed into them since birth. Really sad, because then they stay in that horrible limbo where you know you can't be a witness anymore...but you are AFRAID that they might be right...and so you are stuck in fear and doubt and cannot go forward and heal. Thank goodness we are not stuck there.

  Anyway, good questions sweetone, keep on asking!

  think41self

  "Not believing is not the same as not knowing."
• 

  ashitaka

  hi sweets,

  i think we're just supposed to get the gist of his life and emulate it, just a copy, but better to copy a perfect man than try to lead life without a role model. Some would say that our minds can make an ideal and when we pursue that we are finding ourselves in that moral model....I still read the account of his death with tears in my eyes, THEY couldn't wring it out of me. I am not in a religion now; that's why I certainly can appreciate it.

  Being out is wonderful. No more putting magazines above the words of christ. I'm just a stupid 22 yo kid, but I think now we're closer to GOd than even before, because organizations distance us from beauty, and put rigor in front of love.

  I think Jesus is the poetry of God, in every way, written down in flesh and blood. Although I haven't been doing much to please him I still love, although I'm very misguided.

  It's very obvious that the WT has other plans for it's followers, other than teaching about Christ.

  Thanks for the post, sweets.

  "I pray that I may never see the desert again-hear me God."-Robert Bolt
• 

  sweetone2377

  I had actually went to the library looking for "Crisis of Conscience" (of course the librarians assured me they would order if for me if I so desired) and decided to look up a number of things. When I saw the Proclaimers book in the "religions" section, it did make me chill and I did black out for a few seconds. Thankfully I was still standing when I came too....lol. But I have heard so many good points on this forum and thought I would start to dive in myself, as I can no longer trust the word of any man (or woman), from my previous experiences.

  I too felt that it was awful that I should love some unknown deity over my parents. But now I see the errors of my ways! lol j/k Although I do realize now, just why the WTS teaches that now that I am no longer able to have contact with my mother. If she were able to freely associate with me, my findings may rub off on her and turn her from the orginazation. In all honesty, that's exactly what I'd like to see happen.

  I am currently keeping notes on all my findings. I would like to send a letter to the PO of my former congregation explaining my position and why I wish to be as far away from the JW teachings as possilbe. When I sent in my DA letter, I offered no explanation, as I was doing it just to get away from the physical and emotional abuse I had suffered and they, of course, would'nt see that as just cause for my stand. I'm sure that they may not see my findings as just cause either, but it would make me feel better to know that it is out in the open.

  "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." ~ Matt. 5:6
• 

  sweetone2377

  Ash ~ You are not just another stupid 22 YO kid. You should not refer to yourself that way, not even in jest. You were smart enough to feel the trap you were in and get out. Most in my former congregation would say that I'm not experienced enough to hold fast to the faith, being only 23 at the present time. They say that I am weak. I think that it takes more strength to leave something so powerful and controlling than it is to stay. As far as misguided, we all were. The WTS loves to keep everyone in the dark as to their true motive. But now, being out, we have the ability to research and study without their controlling influence.

  The Proclaimers book stated on page 628, "Some allowed pride to undermine thier faith." I don't think it was pride, it is called a conscience. Who in good conscience could allow themselves to be dictated to follow such rules and regulations (the Branch division hand books list over 1,700) when clearly they are not in line with the Bible and it's true meaning? If it is pride, then I am proud to be filled with it!

  Regards,
  Shelly

  "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." ~ Matt. 5:6
• 

  ashitaka

  I just think that I'm no more thoughtful about God and life and religion than a bag of potato chips. I hope to become a good, spiritual man someday, I'm just not going to do it in an org.

  And, I want to stop being angry about the past. That's it i think. I have a lot of growing to do.
• 

  teejay

  Hello, Sweetie (may I call you sweetie?),

  Good questions. Here are the only 'correct' answers <yuk, yuk>:

  Since Jesus was a PERFECT man, how can anyone realistically be expected to follow in his shoes? Why use him as an example of standing up to tests and remaining faithful? We are, after all, IMPERFECT humans.

  We don't follow him, exactly, but shoot for the standard he set, as limited as we are. It's like watching a pro play tennis, then going out and trying to copy what they do when we play the game.

  C.T. Russell consulted other religions to help him find the "truth." Why are the r&f forbidden to follow in their founder's footsteps?

  Uh... you got me there. Here's a follow-up question that helped make the light go on for me: if we are to get in touch with the Faithful and Discreet Slave, supposedly in existence since the first century, why didn't Russell? How is it that HE found the truth studying the bible on his own? Huh? Huh? How about THAT!??

  In leafing through the Proclaimers book last night, I noticed that all references made of someone remaining loyal is worded that they remained loyal to the organization, not specifically to God. What's wrong with that picture? And why do these, "faithful" witnesses not see it?

  Uh... damn. You got me, again.

  Jeremiah 10:23 says the way of humans is not in their control, they cannot direct their steps. Then why are the r&f to put all their faith in the GB, a group of imperfect human men?

  Uh... I think you're being too picky...

  I came upon all this last night during about 3 minutes of reading. Now tell me that the WTS does not brainwash their "followers." It is plain to see that the WTS is encouraging them to put their faith in trust in man, not God.

  I submit that the WTS doesn't do any brainwashing. The "followers" do it for themselves, thank you very much.

  I don't know if all this has been brought up before but it's just a few things that I started thinking about last night.

  Keep thinking, baby. Keep thinking.

  peace,
  tj

  You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free, but first it is going to make you incredibly miserable.

  -- Brenda Clark
• 

  logical

  The thing is we are all sinners and can never be perfect in our flesh, Jah knows this, hence the need for Christ.

  Man telling us to be perfect is stupid, especially considering those men arent perfect either. We all make mistakes and always will in our flesh. The key is admitting when we are wrong (like David, Moses, Peter) and not being stubborn (like Pharoah, the WTS, G.W.Bush etc) and learning. But we can never be perfect in our flesh.

  Any human who expects more can go away.
• 

  sweetone2377

  Ash ~ I feel the same way, so weak. But now that I have broken my chains, I'm starting to explore. And it's quite interesting. I too want to get rid of the anger. You can't move on when you keep looking back.

  teejay ~ yes, you may call me Sweetie... you crack me up.....

  logical ~ ty. The ones in power (GB, Elders, MS, CO's, etc) are suppose to set an example for the rest to follow. Yet we are to be humble while they are not. Some things need no explaination, they are just wrong and backwards.

  "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled." ~ Matt. 5:6