Bible Translations

by KW13 8 Replies latest jw friends

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  KW13

  Mum tried to 'catch' me and megan out with a few doctrines of the dubs compared to what we believe.

  It was funny how her bible actually DIFFERED from ours and how she worried about that. For example...

  Luke 23:43
  Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be withme in paradise." in the New International Version.

  Whereas the New World Translation says...

  "and he said to him: "truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise."

  Odd how the punctuation changes the meaning and only the Witnesses find a need to place such bearing on other versions being incorrect. For me this is a very clear attempt by them to twist scripture in a HUGE WAY with a small edit.

  In the Reference bible for dubs it says this as regards to this Scripture (paraphrased)...

  "although the WH puts a comma in the gr. text before the word for today, commas were not used in gr. uncial mss. In keeping with the context we omit the comma before today"

  There is more dribble but the fact they ADMIT omitted a comma is THERE FOR ALL TO SEE!
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  onacruse

  Hello KW13.

  the fact they ADMIT omitted a comma is THERE FOR ALL TO SEE!

  In the uncial manuscripts, there were neither commas, colons, semi-colons, or even spaces between the letters.

  The NWT therefore does not unjustifiably "omit" anything in Luke 23:43, anymore than WH (or any other "renderer") unjustifiably "insert" anything in Luke 23:43. It's all a matter of liguistics/hermeneutics/theology.
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  Terry

  What is truly bizarre is the context of this sentence.

  A man who has been brutally beaten, scourged, carried a heavy beam to a place of execution, nailed hand and foot and hanged by bodyweight to die manages to carry on an intelligible conversation!!

  And, oh---how precisely he enunciates!!

  This would never happen!! At best, a thirsty dying soul in his last moments alive might croak, "We'll both be in Paradise...."

  But, never: Truly I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise. This is more stage acting and stilted speechifying than an accurate report of dialogue on the scene.

  Ask yourself who wrote this account and how close by were they standing with writing implements in hand.

  It didn't happen.

  It doesn't matter where you place the comma---it is a fabrication.
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  Zico

  True onacruse. This makes the comma a difficult point to argue, if you're going to argue this one, point out that Jesus told the thief he would be with him. It didn't matter whether it was that day, the next day, or 1918, when he was with him, he was still going to be with Jesus, and since Jesus is in heaven, that means being in Heaven, not Earth. The Society teaches that the thief would be resurrected on Earth, but that would make Jesus a liar.
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  Leolaia

  They are right about the comma but wrong that their comma placement is "keeping with the context." If this was so, they would have noticed that Jesus' use of the specific and proximal TODAY in the verse is a counterpoint to the thief's use of the indefinite WHENEVER. The thief asks him to REMEMBER (an act of remembering implies the passage of time) him WHENEVER (hotan) he gets into his kingdom, but Jesus corrects him by saying that it isn't WHENEVER, but TODAY. That is what the context says.
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  Jankyn

  Thanks, L.

  That's a fantastic and clear explanation of what's wrong with the NWT rendering. For them, "context" means the context of their doctrine, rather than the context of the Scripture.

  Jankyn
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  LittleToe

  They also don't tend to like the idea that the theif must be one of the anointed if he was going to be with Jesus. That or Jesus is going to be in Paradise, but then how does that tally with him being in heaven? Oh, my head hurts!
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  onacruse

  Context (in the fullest sense of the word) is functionally equivalent to exegesis...i.e., theology.

  The theology explains the translation, and becomes the justification for the translation. This is true for any text that has come to be considered sacred.

  Personal revelation is comparable.
• 

  AuldSoul

  LT: They also don't tend to like the idea that the theif must be one of the anointed if he was going to be with Jesus. That or Jesus is going to be in Paradise, but then how does that tally with him being in heaven? Oh, my head hurts!

  LOL, as if you didn't know! 2 Corinthians 12:1-5 places the Greek paradeiso squarely as the third heaven. Revelation 2:7 says paradeiso is where the First Century Ephesian Christians (all anointed, per current JW dogma) would eat from the tree of life ... in heaven.

  In fact, there is no place in the entire Bible that places paradeiso on earth.

  It is just another figment of doctrine that grants the clergy class (that establishes liturgy/doctrine) authority and power over the laity class.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul