by glenster 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
About a generaton ago, the JWs leaders' stance was that a JW could defend themself--John 15:13 ("The Watchtower," June 1, 1968, p.347). It was their expanded rules about worldliness that prevented JWs from being able to work for the government, including the police and military and defend others.
The JWs leaders still have expanded ideas about worldliness and government involvement. But do the JWs leaders still allow a JW to defend themself or have they changed that to pacifism?
I guess Im a little confused about what pacifism is. Amish are pacifists, right? same with Quakers? but wont these people defend themselves if they are being attacked?
I also remember the WT Society forbidding self defense courses too, so I dont know, perhaps that was another instance of them speaking out of both sides of their mouths?
My jw has flipflopped on that many times. At times he says he would protect us (wife & kids) if needed, other times he says he would not use deadly force under any circumstance. Comforting hey? Me, I would have no problem using deadly force if my kids were being attacked or something. No problem at all, wouldn't bother my conscience in the least.
Same here Carla (even though I dont have kids).
I agree with Carla (even though I also don't have kids). The attacker is the one with the choice, they can choose whether they attack you or not. What if you're trying to fight off a rapist? You can't allow yourself to be raped, that's committing fornication but at the same time they do discourage Dubs defending themselves. Maybe they don't want people to realise their own strength, that encourages independance.
* g97 5/8 p. 23 Should Christians Be Pacifists?
True Christians love peace. They stay completely neutral in the world’s military, political, and ethnic conflicts. But, strictly speaking, they are not pacifists. Why? Because they welcome God’s war that will finally enforce his will on earth—a war that will settle the great issue of universal sovereignty and rid the earth of all enemies of peace once and for all.—Jeremiah 25:31-33; Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:9, 10.
As this article said , "It depends what you mean by pacifism". They do not join armed military services . But they are permitted to defend themselves if personally attacked. I recall one Overseer taking meetings with his hand in plaster when he had got into a fight with a youth who was about to vandalise his car.
They would not normally bear arms in the course of employment.. but they can be security guards. I have known one or to that patrolled with dogs..
NB Of course they do not endorse pacifism on the macro level, they advocate the most violent and destructive solution to the world's problems that even "terror groups" could not envisage..
Perhaps physical pacifists........but intellectual and mental predators rivaled only by our leaders in government who write the rules and rule those who obey them.
It is really simple what I see...the line in the sand..or battle lines is this.....
Should information and knowledge be withheld from some to insure they remain servants and prey to those who hold superior knowledge?
Are those good hunters that deserve their reward and booty....or predators who prey on the weak who look to them for guidance and leadership??
THAT is the question..and the argument that began our existance and decadence...that is of yet still undecided...in fact the entire issue is covered up and ignored by both sides.
Perhaps I need to start a topic and get this out in the open.
See where the majority is...
The JWs leaders don't require pacifism but just that followers can't be in the government, under the power of Satan, except for alternatives to military service?
If so, the way the JWs leaders have affected 144,000 exclusiveness on this is to re-
quire agreement to self-contradictions. Their current stance is that Rom.13:1-8
refers to government generally doing good to minimize sin in the world and that
the government is under the power of Satan. The way the JWs leaders customiza-
tion adds up, good Christians should thank Satan for minimizing sin in the
world, and that Christians aren't pacifists--they can fight to defend JWs but
not help the government minimize sin in the world (defend against the Nazis,
etc.).
Is that it?
Only they can answer that...all we can do is guess just what in the hell is going on their minds.
that is cool....change the word coward into pacifist to justify a position that insures safety?
That is why you cannot put any stock into a person defining their own actions.......they are always going to have a pretty word to decribe their actions that sounds ok and legal!
I never got a straight answer on this when I was active. Depending on who you spoke to you got a different answer. All I knew was that you "shouldn't be in the military or be a gun carrying policeman. But you could have a desk job.
As for being a true pacifist, I am not now nor have I ever been one. The image I have of a pacifist is that movie the Time Machine where the future inhabitants were so docile they didn't have the sense to protect themselves against being kidnapped and eaten by the underground mutants.
LHG
