Are we really free?

by LennyinBluemont 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • LennyinBluemont
    LennyinBluemont

    We recently attended our first "apostafest" and as others were doing, took lots of pictures, both at the wedding and on Sunday. Checking the board after we got back, several were begging to see photos. Someone else posted some, and so I picked out some of ours and posted them as well. Soon we received a PM from someone in our photos who didn’t want their picture to be seen on the board, since they are fading. They ID’d the numbers of the photos where they appeared, and so I went to photobucket and deleted those photos from the album (link). I hadn’t been on the board for a day or so and this morning noticed 2 PMs. One from two other persons who wanted their photos removed as well, due to fading, and one from an administrator informing me that my thread had been temporarily removed to a holding area as a consequence. I informed the administrator that I wished the thread to just be deleted, at this point. Apparently taking a camera to an apostafest is not a good idea. Or at least not if you intend on sharing them on the board, which would seem the natural thing to do.

    I want to say that I bear no bad feelings toward any who wanted their pictures removed, and I understand their reasons and respect them. But this has been a learning experience for me. There are more profound issues underlying this situation which you may wish to comment on. Overall, the situation to me, is disturbing.

    Even at an apostafest, a place where so many of us who have never met each other, can gather in compassion and shared tragedy and joy, the organization's ugly tentacles are there, under the surface, influencing how we act with one another — a form of domination. It proves that we are still not totally "free", to the extent that we submit to this, or submit to others submitting to it. No matter what rationalization is used, that's the bottom line.

    There should be no fear of the organization. By continuing to fear them, we continue to enable them, which is just the opposite of what I think we should be doing. As we all know, if they want to DF you, they'll DF you, even if they have to fabricate something as a basis. To continue to live in fear and continue to feel like we have to hide what we are, so as not to spoil what in all honesty is at best a superficial relationship with relatives still "in", is to be false to ourselves, and to them. I recognize the rationale that "unless you have relatives in, you cannot understand what it's like." And I in no way discount that reality. I appreciate that it's a huge emotional struggle. But at the same time, I believe that should be counterbalanced with the reality that by continuing to "pretend" to be accepting of the organization, even tacitly, is to send the perfectly wrong message to our loved ones, and provides an unintended encouragement for them to stay right where they are. And in the process, adds to the empowerment of the organization. To take an honest and firm stand, sends the perfectly right message, and removes all empowerment from the organization. Yes, there may well be a huge emotional pricetag when it comes to relatives. But if others choose to shun us, that is their choice and their responsibility. In the end, how do we cause them greater harm? By lying to them, or by being honest with them? Or is this really about what’s best for us, not them?

    I realize, of course, that it’s infinitely easier for me, a person without any relatives still captive, to reason this way. But what do you think? Is there any validity to these points?

    Lenny

  • Nowman
    Nowman

    Lenny,

    I understand your point of view, I could careless now or 15 years ago when I left about my standing within the org, but for others that still have family in, its very difficult to "come clean". As you know, the shunning thing is a terrible thing, some deal with it better than others, but to each his/her own.

    I would take the photo thing (and others too) as something to think about...I love seeing the pcitures posted but if I were a person trying to keep "my secret", I can understand others concerns by pming you....

    I know, I know, very diplomatic answer, well I am "Demeter, Goddess of the earth and produce, very down to earth" (current active topic...lol).

    Its because I am free spirited, I really understand this situation from many aspects.

    My humble opinion only...

    Nikki

  • Bumble Bee
    Bumble Bee

    Fear is a hard thing to overcome. I have posted my picture on the board, said what congregations I attended, gave some personal information that could identify me. I recently received a PM from a poster on here wondering if they knew who I was.

    I had that "deer in the headlights" feeling - I was caught!! lol

    I debated about responding with who I was. All these questions went through my mind - what if it's someone "fishing" for info, trying to get something on me to call me to a JC etc?? Did I want to put anything in writing that could be used against me??

    In the end, I had a pretty good idea who this person was, took a chance and told them who I was, and who I thought they were. After I hit the send button I thought "OMG what did I just do??" lol (I get that alot after hitting "send".)

    It turns out I was right, and it's somebody I'm really glad to be in contact with again.

    So, I think there will come a time in our lives when we don't have that "fear" anymore. Hopefully those that didn't want their photos posted are working on a support system, new friends outside of the "org" so that one day that fear will be gone and they really will be "free".

    BB

  • theinfamousone
    theinfamousone

    i guess i don't get it either lenny... i mean i understand the reasoning of the people who are trying to fade... the problem that that brings to mind is the fact that it seems quite cowardly! alot of the people here claim to be done with the witnesses and yet continue to suck up to them... i guess that is their perogative, and i do not sit here and judge.... the problem is, they have not broken the fetters that this ridiculous religion has thrown upon them...

    they are not free... they never will be until they learn to feel free... to forget about the false friends and family who will cut them out because of they have learned to actually think for themselves... once that is done, they will be free...

    the infamous one (feeling more free now than ever before...)

  • Nowman
    Nowman

    Hello infamousone...

    Just wanted to mention to you that the reason people hide their "secret" from their current JW relatives or JW friends is because he/she believes that they are truly brainwashed and they value their relationships with these people. So, in regards to your comment about those people being "fake" (and some are), its not always true. If these people here do not want the JW world to know, then so be it, theres more to the story then you and I know.

    Nikki

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Hello Lenny. Good post. I understand your points.

    What I think about the matter, is we cant always get what we want. Often someone is pouring water on our cornflakes. I have gotten to the point in life that for the most part, I just content myself to be an observer and try not to attach any emotion to events and outcomes.

    More specifically, I see people that come on this board are at different phases on their spiritual journey.

  • theinfamousone
    theinfamousone

    nowman,

    im pretty sure i expressed that in my post... that yes many of these people, if not all have their reasons... i was not calling the ones who are refusing to let go fake, i was calling their friends fake... or maybe that was your point... im sorry, but i was never brainwashed enough to ignore someone whom i once considered a friend just because they stopped believing what i did! F that, that was not me... and if their relatives and friends are willing to shun them for what they have chosen to believe, or because the big bad elders tell them to, well those people are not worth our time.... maybe im botter, but why do i need fairweathered friends in my life? i have found true friends outside of the witness organisation who will not run away from me due to a difference of opinion or some fundamental flaw in either of our reasoning! i am much happier now not worried that i will lose friends if i disobey the rule about having sex... or if i dont preach enough! thats all

    the infamous one (will not put up with fake friends)

  • DJK
    DJK

    Lenny, this could be a learning experience for all who may host or attend an Apostafest or meet up. I would like to someday. The topic of photographs can be raised early in the event, for those who still need the privacy.

    I have no fear of the organization. I was never baptised. I have been out for 33 years now and I still cant speak negetively of the society to my father. I would like to post signs on my truck that say the JWs are a cult, I can't because of my father. I know that he, Jehovah, and the WTBTS can't hurt me anymore, but I don't know why I can't speak against it until my father passes away. Until he does, I'm not free.

  • Junction-Guy
    Junction-Guy

    I have an idea for the apostafests in regards to pictures. Pass out round dot stickers to everyone that arrives. A red dot means "please dont take my pic" a green dot means "It's ok to photo me" red means "stop" and green means "go", pretty simple huh?

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