Help on two questions, please.....

by Vernon Williams 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Vernon Williams

  Hey guys,

  If some of you have the time and resources, could you help me with two statements of the WT:

  Somewhere...I only read these two ideas once....the Society said two things:

  The Organization was judged once for all time in 1919 and would never be judged again

  and

  The Apostals had all left Jeruselem before it's fall. That means the "Governing Body" (Gaawwwdd, what a MYTH!!!!) was functioning without them.

  Would you know where this ideas were written?

  I thank you, in advance, for your assistance,

  V
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  Crumpet

  Blondie or Scully might - I dont keep dub paraphenalia around me anymore.
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  garybuss

  Good questions Vernon.
  
  I'll be anxious to read the comments.
  
  I love the Witnesses' spins and advertisements . . . like:
  
  Rita Clement, 65, of Voorhees, added: "So many people claim to be Christian and to be Christian you have to be Christ-like and follow his example as set out in the Bible."
  
  http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070609/LIVING/706090311/1004
  
  I get a kick out of the Witnesses' definition of "Christian". They told me that to be Christian, one had to "do" what Jesus did. So I asked a Witness one time if that meant to be a Christian, I had to be homeless, single, bearded, wear a bed sheet, walk or ride a jackass (instead of riding in a car), practice Jewish festivals, preach in the Synagogs, disrespect and expose Jehovah's organization, debate and challenge the elders, hang out with prostitutes and sinners, and don't go to ritual meetings.
  
  He said: "I've got another appointment. I have to go."
  
  I said, does this mean I don't have to go desert camping or mountain climbing with the Devil?
  
  All I hear is his 15 year old rusted out Lincoln cough to life on 7 cylinders. I watched in silence as the car blew blue smoke rings as he sputtered down the driveway.
  
  
  
  
  
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  Locutus of Borg

  Garybuss, that's priceless. I'll have to remember that one . . .
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  AlphaOmega

  I get a kick out of the Witnesses' definition of "Christian". They told me that to be Christian, one had to "do" what Jesus did. So I asked a Witness one time if that meant to be a Christian, I had to be homeless, single, bearded, wear a bed sheet, walk or ride a jackass (instead of riding in a car), practice Jewish festivals, preach in the Synagogs, disrespect and expose Jehovah's organization, debate and challenge the elders, hang out with prostitutes and sinners, and don't go to ritual meetings.

  Beautiful !
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  Nathan Natas

  How's this for answering quewtion #1?

  "14 Jehovah has accepted us as his worthy subjects. To that end he has taken away all his judgments which he held against us because of our having once been soiled, misguided and mistaught by the Babylonish world to which we had fallen captive. He has cleansed us from these worldly soils. He has put a pure speech in our mouths. He has clothed us with the garments of identification as his subjects and witnesses. He has rid the organization of his people of all untheocratic features and individuals. He has therefore lifted his curse from us; for we read: “And no more will there be any curse. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his slaves will render him sacred service, and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.” (Rev. 22:3, 4, NW) And so he says: “Thou shalt not fear [or, see] evil any more.” (Zeph. 3:15, AS, margin) That means that Jehovah will manage his Theocratic organization from the top down, as he has been managing it from 1919 onward; and he will direct it in the ways of right-doing, so that never again will his displeasure be upon his organized people. Never again will evil and trouble be allowed to come upon them as a rebuke and punishment from him.

  15 What a comfort this is, to know that Jehovah’s adverse judgment will no more be upon his organized people, now that he has turned them Theocratic!..." -- The WATCHTOWER, October 1, 1950, page 353, "DROOP NOT YOUR HANDS"

  Delivered by N. H. Knorr, the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society at 5:45 p.m., Sunday, August 6, 1950, as the closing feature of the 8-day Theocracy’s Increase Assembly of Jehovah’s witnesses at the Yankee Stadium, New York City.
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  Vernon Williams

  Gary and Crumpet,

  Thank you for your thoughts.

  Nathan,

  This is not the comment I was thinking of, however, it is the same thing. I must have read a similar comment in a late eighties or early nineties WT. Thank you.

  The idea is this: the Org. is beyond judgement. That is why the JWs support it as "it" is the only stable thing on the face of the planet. This positive judgement, once for all, allows any type of behavior imaginable.

  I am interested in finding the other comment for this reason: Since the {suppossed] GB functioning in Jeruselem, pre destruction and post exiting of the Apostals, was the "central command" the question is this: Did the composite authority of the GB exceed that of the Apostalic authority of the scattered Apostals?

  I would LOVE to debate a JW Elder head on about this whole "goverance of the First Century Congregation" now that I have my ducks in a row.

  Thank you all,

  Hoping for further material. Thanking all,

  V
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  blondie

  Actually what do you mean by "leaving before the fall"?

  According to the WTS telling, in 66 CE when what's his name came and left, the Christians were supposed to all flee forthwith and not linger. I assume all the "good" and "obedient" Christians had fled and the so-called GB was together for the most part. If not, they communicated much they way they did before, through envoys and travelling Christians.

  Yes, while each individual anointed has yet to get the "final" sealing, the organization as a whole has been sealed finally as the only organization on earth with God's approval. Actually, the WTS teaches Jesus (or sometimes God, or sometimes both mentioned together) came to judge the "temple" in 1918 but approval wasn't evident until 1919.

  Blondie (looking for WTS comments)
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  Vernon Williams

  Blondie,

  Our computer is almost down...I have to take it to the computer fixer....

  Somewhere....I only read this once: the WT said before the fall of Jeruselem to the Romans in 70 (one of the few things they have correct...) ALL the Apostals had left. This was, also, before the Exodus in 67. The article was dealing with the fact as I remember, that the GB were Mosaic Law Kieeping Jews. These two facts, as far as I ever read, were in this one article. These admissions lead to so many questions about this "GB:"

  Did their authority supersede that of the Apostals?

  Where did they go when they left Jeruselem?

  The WT admits the Congregations were for the most part non-apostate at least until 200: Why is there not ONE mention of this GB in any Christian writings.

  It just goes on and on.......

  So if you find anything, thank you.

  I had to work later than usuall shift and did not get home, last night until after three in the morning. Our daughter, Leah, has a dance studio. This was her first year in business. The studio had it's first recital for parents and friends and I went in work late in order to help with this event. It went well. Leah is an excellent teacher: especially adult ballroom.

  If you all do not hear from me for some days: computer in shop.

  Take care,

  Yours in this Journey,

  V