Can we consolidate a comprehensive thread on what beliefs the dubs ripped off, ahem co-opted from the Adventists. I believe the birthdays and some of the end-times speculation came from them. I've been interested in seeing how much of an influence they have been. Are dubs merely a sect or offshoot of the Adventist movement?
7th Day Adventists & J-Dubs
by Black Man 9 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Gopher
Here's an interesting web page to consider, called "Jehovah's Witnesses: An Adventist and Russellite Offshoot".
Link: http://www.premier1.net/~raines/offshoot.html
Here are some snippets from that:
Thus, even according to the [Watchtower] Society today, Russell learned "much" about theology including soul sleep from Adventists, not from the Bible alone.
One major influence on Russell's beliefs during this time was Nelson Barbour of Rochester, New York. Barbour was the publisher of the Adventist magazine, The Midnight Cry which had a circulation of 15,000. It proclaimed that Jesus would return visibly in 1874. When Jesus didn't return, Barbour was at first puzzled. His readership "dwindled to about 300" as a result. 8 One of The Midnight Cry's readers was B.W. Kieth who later became a contributing writer to Russell's Watch Tower magazine. He noted that in Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott Greek/English interlinear translation of Matthew 24, the word parousia translated as coming was rendered as "presence." It was suggested that Barbour had the date of Christ's return right (1874) but had expected the wrong thing (a visible return). Barbour believed that Jesus was invisibly "present" since 1874.
As did some Adventists before him, Russell increasingly viewed all other churches as apostate and his movement was part of the "restoration" of the truth that had been largely lost for centuries. His views and literature as a result became more and more important in his and his follower's eyes. The Bible Student movement and Russell's teaching soon became synonymous with the "Truth."
-
minimus
JWs are much more like Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God. (the earlier version of the group)
-
fjtoth
JWs didn't descend from the 7th-Day Adventists. The similarities between 7th-Days, the JWs and the Worldwide COG came from the Second Adventists.
"Looking back to 1871, we see that many of our company were what are known as Second Adventists."--Zion's Watch Tower, February 1881.
-
AllAlongTheWatchtower
The following link includes info on LDS, WCG, JWs, and SDA. I stumbled across it about a week ago while looking for proof that the WCG had a 1975 doctrine just like JWs. This may not be exactly what your're looking for, Black Man, as I don't remember seeing any info about things from one group being ripped off of another. It does mention Miller somewhere on the site though, if I recall correctly, as a common denominator. Each group can be clicked on individually, with a brief synopsis of "Claims" as in what the group believes or says, "Allure" what makes the group attractive to some, "Concerns" reasons to be worried about joining, "Nuggets of Truth" things the author feels the group got right.
It's all done pretty well, and fairly objectively, I felt. The author is a christian though, and definitely has a slight slant to some comments, especially to be seen in the "nuggets of truth" sections. Nothing too radical though, probably only would bother me and other atheists. She is ex WCG, as is explained in another section of the same site.
http://www.isitso.org/guide/groups.htm
When prophecy fails: A page from the same site that discusses how people in a high control group actually become MORE convinced of the rightness of their group when something goes wrong, and will be willing to push even harder to make more converts. Comparison of WCG and JWs on 1975; this is what lead me to the site in the first place.
-
LoverOfTruth
There are similarities with all of the Cults and with many Religions for that matter. It's all about control.
-
barry
Gday Blackman,
Im the SDA here so maybe I can answer some of youre questions.
Arianism came through the Adventist movement and to this day some SDAs are still Arian. When Walter Martin studied Adventism in the 50s he found to his amazement that on official church papers both Arianiam and the Trinity were taught of course the Trinity doctrine is the official one taught by the SDA church.
It should be remembered that to the lead up to the great dissapointement in 1844 the Milleriterites were diverse in their beleifs and they had a wide range of beleifs because tehy came from other churches and were members of different churches while still holding to Millers idears
The SDAs have birthday partys just just like the majority of the people out their.
The SDAs use historicism to interpret last day evens just as the JWs do. In SDA circles there has been a reaction against historicism because of its 19th century connection and the beleife there are just much better interpretations available.The only other church useing the historicist method is the worldwide church of god.
SDAs together with the christadelphians and JWs all beleive in soul sleep but all SDAs [the great crowd ] go to heaven with the 144000 Jehovahs witnesses.
-
greendawn
What is certain Russell got his 1914 date from the second day adventists, Barbour more specifically, and didn't work it out by himself. The JWs got their end of times hysteria from the adventists and they are the ones that exploited better than anyone else to further their interests.
In all whatever JW theology was not developed by them it was taken from the Protestant world.
-
barry
I just found on the SDA Official website the SDA attitude to other christian groups and their attitude to apostates. Some of you might be thinking Im preaching here but nothing could be farther from the truth in some areas I strongly disagree with SDA doctrine like the investigative doctrine and 1844
SDA attitude to other christians. From the official website
We recognize those agencies that lift up Christ before men as part of the divine plan for evangelization of the world and we hold in high esteem christian men and women in other communions who are engaged in winning souls to Christ.
SDA attitude to Apostates.
We recognize that true religion is based on conscience and conviction.It is therefore to be our constant purpose that no selfish interest or temporal advantage shall draw any person to our communion and that no tie shall hold any mamber save the belief and conviction that in this way the true connection with Christ is found. If a change of conviction leads a member of our church to feel no longer in harmony with SDA faith and practice we recognize not only the right but the responsibility of that member to change, without opprobrium, religious affilliation in accord with belief. We expect other religious bodies to respond in the same spirit of religious liberty.
-
Terry
Awhile back I delved into the history of the original stimulus for Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses as far as the William Miller debacle is concerned. Here are the two links:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132920/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132967/1.ashx
Extra box for lint