In the past 3 weeks, I have had 2 JWs deny Salvation or say that only the 144K have to be Born AGain and 1 even going as far as asking "What do I need to be saved from?" But yet, there are several Bible scriptures that says otherwise. Please discuss.
Christrians: Why are JWs so aganist being born aganin/Salvation?
by A-Team 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Terry
JW's are like spoiled children who don't want to get in the car for a daytrip!
If they must then it is a fight over which seat.
In other words: infantilism.
Salvation is such a hackneyed word, by the way. It reeks of tent meetings and sweaty evangelism. I prefer to think of it as jumping through hoops to keep skyDad from killing you.
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Undecided
What are you saved from? Hell fire? If you were saved from sin then why do you die like everyone who isn't saved? All I can see that being saved does is give some an attitude of some sort. Some people say they don't practice the same debased life as before, but many unsaved people don't either. If you're saved and like it, just keep on being saved and enjoy the ride.
Ken P.
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heathen
I just wonder what is the official dogma over salvation as proposed by other religions? I'd have to say the j-dubs believe that being obedient to the WTBTS is their means of saving . They don't believe the GC are adopted as spirit children when baptized , I think that's why they throw their own oath of obedience to the org. during the ritual. I think other religions believe that once saved always saved dogma is salvation where as the dubs teach that you must obey and accept everything they say as fact in order to be saved.
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wokeup
For decades the Watchtower message has been this: The kingdom of the heavens is closed. You do not belong to Christ, cannot be baptised into Christ, have his spirit nor his mediatorship.
One must cast aside any notion that the NT writings directly apply to you. God's word and spirit are not sufficient to guide and direct christians. Their impotence are manifested by the stressed allegiance and obedience to the 'sole channel' between god and men. Right or wrong, loyalty at all costs.
The NT message of redemption and grace has been so adulterated that it takes mental gymnatics for a witness to explain even the simplicity of Eph.4:4-6. Or re-defining the word 'All' at Matt: 28:18 with the 1914 doctrine to deflect Christs' authority in a christians' life.
Adding the 'dedication vow' as a pre-requisite to baptism despite it's stark absence from the accounts found in the book of Acts has created 6 million people trying to 'live up' to a vow rather than for the one who purchased them.( 2 Cor.5:15).
Allen
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blondie
My take on this is that those who identify themselves as born again can be very intense about expressing it and jws are not so emotional about their religious views, judgmental yes, emotional, no. jws can be cold and reasoned about the whole thing. Also, their vocabulary tends to be "special" in expressing it, much the way jws have a "pure language", a shorthand way of expressing their ideas that can be a turn off. Also, jws are taught that only the 144,000 anointed are born again, so the concept has little in way of meaning for the 6.5 million jws compared to the 8700 anointed jws today.
Also, jws perceive that born again Christians teach that once "they receive Christ" they are saved once for all time and cannot sin and separate themselves from God. jws are taught they must continue proving their worthiness to God even after baptism.
Just my perceptions...all born again Christians are not alike, monolithic in their approach to the Bible.
Blondie
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hamsterbait
Just think if a Dub believed he is viewed as righteous in God's eyes, therefore entitled to salvation, (what being "saved" means). This is also known as "Grace" (not Mouthy)
Unless he becomes a deliberate murderor or some other serious sin not due to mere human imperfection he can confidently expect God's love blessing and eternal life.
So why go hawking the litterature, sit for hours at the Kingdumb Hell, avoid healthy fun and recreation, give money to the Witchtower Babble and Tricks, help lie about its history and cover up the scandals and graft?
Because the Witlesses are taught they have to have a record of "fine works" (as defined by their master the FDS) when Armageddy comes. They effectively have to BUY their salvation.
(But but but I hear them say - "we were told at the ASSembly that no amount of preaching can buy our salvation". Actually this is code for "you will never be good enough, so get your ass out there and get the money.")
They quote the verse in James "faith without works is dead". Missing the point that if we have real faith in Christ we will be so delighted and grateful as well as made into better people we will not be able to stop ourselves manifesting Jesus in our lives.
Christians with true faith do not need to be kicked up the backside by a man-made organization.
To truly understand the scriptural meaning of being saved would make any witless aware of how far short his works based cult is of meaningful humanity. So they reject it, fear it, and run away from it like a cockroach runs from the light.
HB
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jgnat
I think JW's avoid the evangelicals more than any other group because they are their chief rivals. It puzzled me for some time. Hubby would rather listen to secular music than a Christian rock band. He frequently mocks the evangelicals' beliefs on heaven, the eventual state of the earth, the relative ease of Christendom's lifestyle, and the nearly instantaneous rewards. Could there be some jealousy there? I mean, what does a JW have to do to prove himself, compared to an evangelical?
I think evangelicals make it harder on themselves because if they do engage a JW, they get their bibles out and have a healthy round of debate on the trinity. After all, that is the mark they have been taught separates the apostates from the true believers.
I once had an interesting conversation with a zealous evangelist who had planned to walk in to a Kingdom Hall hand preach those people straight. But the doors of her truck wouldn't open! (woooooo). But when she drove home, the doors opened just fine. She blamed it on demons. I think God kept her from making a royal fool of herself.
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AllAlongTheWatchtower
Bear in mind, this is purely my conjecture, but hopefully an educated guess, not just a shot-in-the-dark guess. Most people in high control groups like the JWs, WCG, LDS, etc, have been taught that WORKS is their path to salvation. They must DO. They are also told that being in this group, they are now 'special', part of the "truth", the "flock", the "one true church". Why? Because they have received the message that works are what is important, and have acted on it.
Then along comes your born-again, and says 'no, you have it all wrong-just repent and have faith, and all is well'. Knocks the wind right out of their sails. All the works they did...nice maybe, but worthless as far as salvation goes. Also, to accept this new belief, they now have to accept they are no longer in that 'special' group, ANY Joe Schmoe can come along and have faith, for cryin out loud. Suddenly, their whole self-image becomes valueless.
That 4dr car they bought...not needed...those hours in service...wasted time...the relatives they shunned... grandma dying when she refused blood...why?! All worthless. The alternative is too much for them, so they continue to believe what they were taught. Just my opinion.
I guess in a bizarre way you could also consider it a form of elitism...like two schoolkids with abusive parents arguing over which one's daddy hits the hardest...MY religion/daddy makes me suffer more, so it must be the best.
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reneeisorym
Thier terminology is different. They belive in salvation by works. They will quote "Faith without works is dead."