May I direct your attention to pages 220 & 221?

by NotaNess 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  NotaNess

  Of the proclaimers book. No doubt many of you have read this JW book on the WT version of the History and Origins of the Society.

  My issue is on pages 220 and 221 where they "briefly" show some images of things and practices, that the org has abandoned. Some of these were practiced for many years, and even were at the very creation of the organization.

  According to JW/WTS teachings and beliefs, this organization has "pagan" origins based on the given evidence. Did this not have any effect on you as a JW, knowing that you were out teaching to "not touch un-clean things"? Is this not proof, that this is NOT how God's organization would come to be, or even be God''s organization in general?

  It did and does not matter that they were abandoned, or a "better understanding" was implimented into the teachings. If a career criminal and killer, stopped his ways, and was introduced to you as a good friend of a friend of yours and you were asked to have them over for dinner and/or sleep over, would you do it?........why not?, he abandoned his old practices. The answer is no, and you would never ever feel comfortable with that person at gatherings or socials, around your kids, etc.

  If you read it, how did your mind explain it away?

  (please, I don't want to hear about how all religion is pagan based, just focus on the particular issue, thanks)
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  unique1

  My issue is on pages 220 and 221 where they "briefly" show some images of things and practices, that the org has abandoned.

  It does???? Wow I will have to go home and see if I have one of those.
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  Justahuman24

  Just to play the devil's advocate here: The JW's can argue that Abraham's fathers/ancestors were pagans. Joshua made reference to the fact that Abraham's forefathers. It says "they" and it could even include Abraham although the WT when it explains Joshua 24:2, it makes it seem like it was only Terah who worshipped pagan gods for some time but not Abraham. I would assume that Abraham when growing up would've participated in pagan worship since his forefathers and his father did. However, that didn't make God not choose Abraham and Terah since they both left Ur and they both became worshipers of God. So, even though they at one time didn't worship God, they changed and did become worshipers of the true God and that's what counted with God, that they had changed their ways. justahuman - but super nonetheless
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  B_Deserter

  "If a career criminal and killer, stopped his ways, and was introduced to you as a good friend of a friend of yours and you were asked to have them over for dinner and/or sleep over, would you do it?........why not?, he abandoned his old practices. The answer is no, and you would never ever feel comfortable with that person at gatherings or socials, around your kids, etc."
  
  Well, the answer is not "no" in every case. I guess for me it would all depend on how long ago he was a career criminal, and how long has he changed his ways. If it were an old man that got into a lot of serious trouble as a youth, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
  
  To play devil's advocate here, I'd say that the society then was not the same society back then. They did all these things long before I was born and no longer practice them. Therefore, they repented. Of course these pages in the Proclaimer's book kind of blow away the whole "JWs hide their negative history" argument, even if they do try to spin it into something positive. Plus, in every cong. I've been to all the old books are in the Hall library, just sitting on the shelf ready to be read.
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  bob1999

  "To play devil's advocate here, I'd say that the society then was not the same society back then. They did all these things long before I was born and no longer practice them. Therefore, they repented."
  
  I think the point has been missed. The WTS, back then, claimed to be "God's only channel....." whatever. They were not then and they are not now. If yesterdays "truth" is now a lie, what about todays "truth" come tomorrow?
  
  I have never seen so many people with their heads in the sand.......
  
  
  Sorry, the more I look into this cult the more I see people who want to be blind.
  
  In the end it doesn't matter. I am now a Calvinist and those who God chooses, God chooses.
  
  Rom 8:28-30 verse 30 "And those He predestined he also called; and those whom He called he also justified; and those whom He justified he also glorified"
  
  And those whom He didn't, He didn't.
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  Arthur

  It's funny that this book was published not long after Ray Franz published "In Search Of Christian Freedom" - about two years to be exact. In his chapter on the Faithful and Discreet Slave, Ray has photographs of the Bethel family celebrating Christmas, and has pictures of the old Watchtowers with the crosses on them. The Proclaimer's book also published photos of the Bethel family celebrating Christmas and photos of the cross-decorated Watchtowers. I'm not saying that they published this book purely in response to Ray Franz's book, in fact I think it's doubtful. However, I do think that Franz's book did have an influence on how much information they ultimately decided to publish regarding certain aspects of the org's history.
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  NotaNess

  Justahuman.....thanks for the response. Nice attempt, but one doesn't equal the other. It is a good argument though. The WT also tries to make connections with scripture and translation in sort of the same way. "This and this happened, so it must mean this and this"

  B_deserter(did I type that right?)....go through the history of killers in the last century via internet, library or however you choose. Let me know how many of them were over 60. You'll find plenty, no doubt. Thanks for the response.

  If I read correctly somewhere; I think a site that had past "Letters to the elders" and "Letters to the WT from the elders", there was one particular letter referring to a member who had previously killed people or someone in his past but the elders were told to keep the information to themselves and not alert authorities, even though he had never been caught or jailed for the crime(s).

  Thanks everyone, and please know that I don't post topics only to try and counter other's replies. It happens sometimes, yes, but I truly appreciate the opinions and facts given in all matters on this forum. Without you all, people like myself would be that much un-informed of issues.

  Some of my topics and posts are also attempts to give "new " to Lurkers or atleast give them some reality, like many others do here.