My PO stopped me today. He usually does, seems like a nice guy. Anyways, he hands me these sheets of paper and said "I thought you might find these interesting". Appartently this scholar Jason David BeDuhn Wrote a book called "Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias Translations of the New Testament" and from what my PO gave me this guy is saying that the NWT is pretty much the best Translation. I looked up the Author and I emailed asking him if this was actualy what he was wanting to get across, we'll see if he writes me back. But, I wasnt sure if anyone has heard of this author or this book. I scanned the couple of pages I got from my PO, but they dont come in to well.
accuracy of the NWT
by TIMBOB 7 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Honesty
Mr. BeDuhn is as decieved as your PO.
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drew sagan
You may want to read this
Truth in Translation Review" -
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RAF
If I say IF he is defending the NWT from JW's point of view on the TETRAGRAMMATION and Jesus position
Think about this
Y : Yod (essence / Potential)
H : he (fecondity)
W : Wav - Vav (capacity / action)
H : He (at the end) = (realisation)It's not really a name it's the concept of God - Actually you dont need to know more than that to understand what can be wrong or right regarding to the stranslation in this matter
that's why you can translate it both way :I make to become = I am (the basis of existance)
But what makes things to become for anything to be able to say I am (I do existe) the vav and who is the vav in the the TETRAGRAMMATION ?
I Cor 8:6
American Standard Version
".yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him."New world translation
6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.it does actually means the same ...
God named by YHWH is a process which lead to existence (you can see God as a person but that wouldn't be God !!!)
Confirmation about the idea that God (the Yod in the tetragrammation regarding to the vav is the essence of everything (bigger in this sense) :
Eph 4 : 4-6
American Standard Version
4.[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; 5.one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6.one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.New world translation
One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.All this explain the order of the personifications in he following quote and from who everything comes alive (so the son can't be a creation but a creature = a result = maturity after fecondity which gives the capacity) :
John 1:1-3
American Standard Version
1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2.The same was in the beginning with God.3. All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.New world translation
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.All this also explain Jesus answer to the precious question :
John 14: 6-9
American Standard Version
6.Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7.If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8.Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9.Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?New world translation
6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If YOU men had known me, YOU would have known my Father also; from this moment on YOU know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
(even with the also added it still means the same = the way you see me right now)then this something became incoherent here
Philipian 2:5-6
American Standard Version
5.Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6.who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with Goda thing to be grasped,7. but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
8. and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [even] unto death, yea, the death of the cross.New world translation (totally incoherent)
5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake.
Eddited to add : their own version admit that at least he was existinig in Gods formsSo any can want to give the WT - NWT version some credit but when you scrutenize the details (just regarding the main thing) they are incohérent or make sur that their translation can validate their postulate ...
So if this guy is an expert ... it's very interesting to know that he wants to support their version
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RAF
To complete the idea
There is a reason why Christ does talk like a son to a father when in Jesus position (cause he is in fact our father - regarding the Tegragrammation and the verses aboves - and more) :
As Jesus he give an example as a man and spiritually will still have to recognise the greatest in the tiniest (all those which gives God more importance than Christ - which is actually it's maturity which make the Yod alive even its conscience to be alive (when we are not conscious even alive like in coma we don't know that we are alive do still exist) is the vav. (if you talk for instance to God as Yod (whitout taking in consideration Christ you talk to everything back to "If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also" he is in fact the way what is true in the kind of God / vav that people are thinking about and the way) ... It takes those who care more about what is bigger at there own game.
Also : That's why he is the word/the verb (what answers the questions = conscience and the need = action). just like our own conscience (somehow the product of ) our experience talks to us and lead us to act/react.
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RAF
And to go further on the matter :
That's also why christ is God's wisdom (somehow it's maturity in every sense) and that is what is asked to be recognised and have faith in (= Christ = his wisdom = his doctrine as christian or not or then you're an appostate but only then - the real baptisme is not the water one Eph 4: 4-5 and Mat 3:11).
I Cor 1 : 21 (what)
American standard version
21. For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.NWT version
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing.Which explain the need of discernment (what is expressed even in readind in between the lines) it have to make sens globally or there is a problem in the understanding regardind to the goal (why this have been written - and it shouldn't lead to be slaves for salvation but free as salvation by wisdom = Christ to resume) ...
I Cor 2 : 7-8 (who = the sacred secret)
American standard version
7.but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, [even] the [wisdom] that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory: 8.which none of the rulers of this world hath known: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory:
NWT version
7 But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. 8 This [wisdom] not one of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known [it] they would not have impaled the glorious Lord. -
RAF
About the discernement :
2 Peter 3:15-16
AST
15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you; 16. as also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.NWT
15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote YOU, 16 speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.note hat untaugh does not mean exactly the same as ignorant (= about wisdom = Christ which haven't recognise what is related to him)
We know the WT wants to teach us everything through lots,lots,lots of studies and they make it obvious in there translation.
In french version : hard to understand is translate as obscure (= without the enlightement) and unstedfast wrest or unsteady is translated as without firmness = hypocrites (in one or all ways possible regarding to the matter).