Kingdom Ministry Sept, Holy Spirit, 144,000

by KW13 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • KW13
    KW13

    I put all this to my mum yesterday and she didnt like it, she didnt like the thought i got material before the FDS shared it, i think she thought this material was created a bit nearer to the time of it being needed, food at the proper time and everything and not that it was sat waiting to be given.

    Anyway we also chatted about the Holy Spirit and how the JW's are denied what it could potentially do for them, well she said its abilties arent around today...

    i asked about the Society and asked if it was a prophet she said yes.

    I then showed her the scripture that showes the gifts of the sprit 1 Corinthians 12...prophecy is one of them, so then i asked her what else might still work if prophecy does. It showed from that Scripture that all the gifts of the spirit that show themselves are equally as important in the eye of God bla bla bla and WOW she was stunned...

    In the end she resorted to twisting scripture, because as we got onto how the Sprit isnt an Active Force but a REAL THING she used Verse 6 to prove that apparently it was his active force it says God does all these things in men...WTF?

    Thoughts? This chat actually got quite far and i knew i left her with seeds of doubt. I'd been looking along the lines of Exit Counseling for myself and some of the ideas really helped me in my conversation with mum in the approach and ideas.

    ALSO a Question - Do the Witnesses teach that the 144,000 came from the Watchtower Society or do they teach SOME of them come from there and some came from back in bible times too? because my mum tried to say its both and then i said, well how can the Society give 144,000 AND then some extra from these times as well?

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE discuss and share thoughts, they are helpful to me and for the first time in ages my mum was speechless and got to the point where she started taking everything personally.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan
    Do the Witnesses teach that the 144,000 came from the Watchtower Society or do they teach SOME of them come from there and some came from back in bible times too? because my mum tried to say its both and then i said, well how can the Society give 144,000 AND then some extra from these times as well?

    They believe that Jesus began to select his 'bride' beginning at Pentecost up until 1935 (oh wait now we don't know when they will stop being chosen).

  • Hermano
    Hermano

    From Pentecost 33 there were always some "true" christians i.e., annointed ones, who co-existed with the false christians. Up until 1918 when the Society was chosen and then all true christians have to affiliate with the Society or else they are really false christians.

  • whyizit
    whyizit

    How could there be any openings left when Russell came on the scene in 1880? The book of Acts mentions at least 100,000 saved, and this was the BEGINNING of Christianity!

    Acts 2:41- 2,000

    Acts 2:47- daily saved

    Acts 4:4- 5,000

    Acts 9:42; 17:12, 19:18 - Many

    Acts 13:48- as many as were ordained to eternal life believed

    Acts 21:20- many ten thousands [lit. myriads] NWT (large ref. edition) footnote: tens of thousands *A very large number of both physical and spiritual Jews.

    The Finished Mystery 1917, says there were 861,000 martyrs. Surely a great number of these would have been in the 144,000, wouldn't they?

    If she tries to use the schpeel about the Bible saying there will be a falling away, point out that the Bible says the falling away happens in the END times. JWs claim we are living in the END times NOW. In order to fall away, they must have something to fall away from in the first place.

    Another thing I would point out: The WTS taught that the 144,000 number was closed at 1935. Just about everything practiced by JWs of that time is now considered pagan. (Voting, war, observing holidays, birthdays, etc..., smoking, blood transfusions, no proper name for God, no proper oragnization, Jesus on the cross, worshipped Jesus, believed ALL JWs go to heaven, Christ's return was in 1874, and so on.) Why would God choose people with such pagan beliefs to live and reign with Him?! If the light is getting brighter, why wouldn't He wait until the very end and choose those with the purest doctrines and practices?

    That's a few of the things I would ask about.

  • ninja
    ninja

    the 861 odd thousand is also mentioned in a 1951 watchtower...*** w51 9/1 p. 516 Hated for His Name ***.....surely the 144,000 was filled up way back

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached

    chapter 12 page 236 paragraphs 54-55

    Increasing the King’s Belongings

    The annual celebration of the Lord’s Supper on the following date, Wednesday, April 8, 1925, brought something encouraging to light. Because of the planting, watering and cultivating work that had gone on till then in additional areas of activity, with the newly provided instruments for Kingdom publicity, the number of congregations of disciples with heavenly hopes increased. The membership of congregations increased. So at this celebration of the Lord’s Supper the number of participants therein indicated this growth and production of disciples of Christ. How many, then, did participate that year?The September 1, 1925, issue of TheWatchTower, page 263, under "Memorial Reports," says:

    55

    "We are pleased that the number participating in the Memorial is so great, because it manifests much interest in the truth everywhere, and this is as it should be. The grand total reported to date is 90,434, which is 25,329 more than were reported a year ago."

    144,000 minus 90,434 'anointed ones' in 1925 = 53,566 TRUE CHRISTIANS from 33 A.D. until 1925 A.D.

    Yep, Jehoobie sure was Increasing the King’s Belongings

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    From 33 A.D. until 1925 A.D. is 1892 years.

    53,566 True Christians in 1892 years is 28.31 true Christians added every year from 33 A.D. until 1925 A.D.

    Yeppers, makes a lot of sense.

  • KW13
    KW13

    thanks everyone

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