John Denham Parsons and the cross/stauros issue

by chasson 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  chasson

  In a lot of articles of the Watchtower concerning the cross/stauros issue is cited a book called "The Non-christian Cross" from John Denham Parsons.

  Perhaps it has still been talked here, but i have made some google search and i have found that this men has written another book called "The Nature and Purpose of the Universe" speaking about reincarnation and other 'spiritist' topics, this man was member of the Society for Psychical Research in 1905. You can find what this Society was here.

  So as M. Greber for the NWT, is this another case of a "spirit-medium" who has served as reference for the Watchtower ?

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  chasson

  Look at his theory concerning Jesus as a Sun-God in 1896.

  Bye

  Charles
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  Terry

  Isn't this a bit like refusing to listen to Tristan and Isolde because Richard Wagner was an anti-Semite?

  Throwing out the baby with the bathwater is never a good idea.

  There are a great many things produced by ghastly people which are perfectly serviceable and untainted by their author.

  In the case of Greber it is obvious you are dealing with a source of highly questionable purity and the Watchtower cannot be held blameless.

  But, Parsons writes of things in his own time which are much less shocking and controversial today (thanks to DaVinci Code).

  It is better to demonstrate where error occurs specifically, I think, than to roundly toss the lot of it in the bin.

  How many of us have eaten around a bad spot on a banana without throwing the whole thing in the trash?
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  chasson

  Well for example, M. Parsons when he quote Livy (28:29,11) has seriously mixed the latin word crux with the latin word palus. It is really important because this is an argument that the writer of the Watchtower has taked from Parsons. They have tried to show that before Constantin the latin word 'crux' mean simply a 'stake', and that the writings of Livy show this meaning, without citing them explicitly.

  In fact the Watchtower's writer cites Parson:

  "A reference, for instance, to the writings of Livy, will show that in his time the word crux, whatever else it may have meant, signified a single piece of wood or timber; he using it in that sense" (The Non-Christian Cross Chapter II)

  The quote of Parsons is Livy Chapter 28 par. 29, here it is in french, sorry:

  "on les traînait nus au milieu de la place; en même temps, on montrait tous les préparatifs du supplice; les condamnés furent attachés au poteau (palus in latin and not cross), battus de verges et frappés de la hache, tandis que la crainte paralysait à tel point les assistants, qu'on n'entendit pas un mot un peu fier contre la rigueur de la peine, ni même un gémissement. (12) " Livy

  So Parsons and the Watchtower's writers who has cited Parsons (without mentionned it) are terribly false, Livy made the difference between stake (palus) and cross (crux), here an exemple in the same chapter where crux is used instead of palus (still in french):

  tandis que les gens de Gadès rejetaient la faute sur une ruée de la foule, irritée par certains pillages commis par les soldats qui s'embarquaient, il attira à une entrevue les sufètes (ce sont les plus hauts magistrats chez les Carthaginois) et le questeur de Gadès, les fit battre de verges et mettre en croix (cross and not palus); (3) puis il passa avec ses vaisseaux dans l'île de Pityusa, éloignée de cent milles environ du continent; des Carthaginois l'habitaient alors. (4)

  1/ Livy has not used cross in place of "stake" as Parsons said and the Watchtower's writers after him.

  2/ On the opposite, Livy has clearly show a difference between a stake (palus) and a cross (crux) in latin.

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  Terry

  So Parsons and the Watchtower's writers who has cited Parsons (without mentionned it) are terribly false, Livy made the difference between stake (palus) and cross (crux), here an exemple in the same chapter where crux is used instead of palus (still in french):

  Ahhhh, excellent!

  The Watchtower cherry-picks quotes and corroborative passages quite deftly and dishonestly.

  Don't you wish you could afford every reference book quoted by the WT and show the JW's the passages that weren't quoted?
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  JCanon

  Look at his theory concerning Jesus as a Sun-God in 1896.

  Bye

  Charles

  Not sure if the publication expresses it accurately, but Christ is called the "bright morning star" in Revelation and in Biblical allegory, the moon represents Christ's bride, the church, and he does represent the sun that gives light to the moon. The sun and moon are considered as husband and wife. So in that way, Christ could be considered as represented in our solar system as the Sun.

  But it goes further than that. Christ is born near the time of the Festival of Booths. His minestry of 3.5 years ends at Passover time, where another week-long festival is held. Likewise, the 8th day of the Festival of Booths is celebrated just as the 8th day of life of a male child is the day he is circumcised. Related? Of course! That suggests that Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day of the Festival of Booths to fulfil that! In that case, we can determine precisely when he was born since we know the year he was born (2 BCE) and we can use astronomical programs to determine when the 8th day of the moon for the 7th month occurred. But having noted that, it occurs very close to the fall equinox, which is nine months from the winter solstice, the clear reference to the "birth of the sun"; when the sun reverses its decline and starts to return so that the days start to become longer.

  Even the WTS in it's 6th Volume of "Studies in the Scriptures" clearly points out a key event date was December 25th, which is the "Annunciation" date. The actual event of holy spirit coming upon Mary to impregnate her with Jesus Christ. So that's a second reference in line with the planets and seasons that relates to Jesus being the original "sun god". Having noted that, detail, though, it becomes more apparent that this is the inference since Christ reappears in the flesh at precisely the same time for the second coming (i.e. December 24-26, 1992). So there is a cosmological harmony and pattern being coordinated with Christ in his role as the sun or sun-god.

  As one more truly esoteric little detail. The time God came to visit mankind was in the afternoon as God did with Adam. The sign of the son of man appeared in the afternoon. Thus after the fact that Christ is represented by the sun itself, his actual appearance is in the fall. I would consider this the time of the waning sun. Thus Jesus Christ in specific reference to the sun has a connection with the waning sun. It is possible there is some special significance to that.

  I wonder about that in non-Jewish representations of Yahweh worship. Particularly, Yahweh as depicted as "Aten" by Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten). It wasn't actually the sun that was Aten but the ways of the sun or the effect of God acting through the sun. But the Egyptians divided the concept of the sun into various stages, I believe three, the rising sun, the risen sun and the declining sun. They called the sun at high noon some form of "Ra", but the afternoon son was specifically called "Aten". Might be an incredible coincidence, but if Akhenaten truly was inspired by Jehovah, which appearently he was, then maybe the concept of the sun in relation to that worship was appropirately represented as the afternoon son, more in relation to Christ's role in relation to man. Just as God provides Christ to bring light, so he is the sun, with God working through the sun or appearing at the time the sun is waning, in the afternoon. So is that esoteric connection. The Bible records that immediately after the Ten Plagues Egypt would become a worshipper of Yahweh (Isa. 19).

  http://www.seanet.com/~realistic/psalm104.html

  So much for the sun-god and Jesus.

  JCanon
• 

  JCanon

  My position on this is that Jesus indeed was nailed to a cross and not just a stake. The WTS seem a bit shortsighted in this regard. I can see why worshipping the object Jesus was impaled upon would not be appropriate, further that indeed the cross is connected with pagan religion from Babylon, but wouldn't the ultimate insult to Christ be having him nailed to a pagan symbol, so that he imitates and gives glory to "Tammuz"? So the vessel of his impalement if it was a cross would not have been inappropriate, not that the cross structure wasn't incidentally effective at that manner of death.

  So the WTS tries to desperately burn the candle from both ends, finding a historical inaccuracy in Jesus dying on a cross on the one hand, and exposing it as a pagan Babylonian symbol on the other. When in fact, the pagans who killed Jesus, if there was some religious connection to that, would have used their own pagan cross first if had a choice, would they not? They missed the opportunity of a whole chapter in the Babylon the Great book on how Satan's ultimate last word was to have Jesus' body in death making the "sign of the cross" in honor of Tammuz, making it doubly a reason to avoid the pagan symbolism. But apparently not! The Bible doesn't call what Jesus was nailed to a "cross" but it doesn't contradict that a cross beam (perhaps not the significant proportions of the cross we see depicted today) wasn't used in the impalement process.

  JCanon

  http://www.watch.pair.com/stuph1.html

  The Tau Cross

  “The tau is a Masonic symbol. The Mason makes the tau cross with his feet during his initiation ceremony… J.S.M. Ward, a Mason…adds, ‘The tau cross is also a symbol of the male or creative side of the deity, and is really a conventionalized form of the phallus… The Sign Language of the Mysteries states…: ‘The tau cross is a very ancient symbol, representing the phallus and hence it often stands for our animal passions .’…

  “A former Mason mentions that the tau cross ‘is actually the symbol of the pagan slain and risen god, Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:13-14). It is a symbol for just another counterfeit Masonic ‘Christ’.” ~ Burns, Masonic & Occult Symbols Illustrated, p. 249

  
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  JCanon

  There is a narrow possibility that the WTS prefers to show Christ on a tree rather than a cross as a throwback to some old "Mysteries"/Freemasonry and British-Israelism doctrine about the tree Jesus being impaled on being connected to the Tree of Life. Here's just a brief exerpt on that secret society doctrinal belief (below). It seems pertinent since the winged disk was also a part of the British-Israelism movement and the WTS used that symbolism on its early publications, seeming to invite other British-Israelists into the organization or identifying the organization with this branch of Freemansy/The Mysteries.

  THE SCEPTER OF AUTHORITY

  The thesis of Peter Michas' book, The Rod of an Almond Tree in God's Master Plan, is built upon the myth that a branch from the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden was passed through generations of Israelites to David who planted it on the Mount of Olives. This rod, which possessed magical powers because it was engraved with the Ineffable Name, YHWH, would become the tree upon which Christ was crucified. Subsequently, it became a relic which will be returned by Elijah the prophet to validate the true Messiah, who will take his place upon the Throne (Mercy Seat) at the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem:

  "The fate of the crucifixion tree is not known; however, it can be assumed that it was eventually cut down and destroyed... It is possible that a branch of this tree was preserved, for it is to be returned by the prophet Elijah to the Messiah when He returns to establish the Millennial kingdom." ( Rod of an Almond Tree, p. 149)

  "When Yeshua returns, He will set up His Throne in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 43:7). At this time, it is thought that the prophet Elijah will return the rod -- a branch from the Tree of Life -- to the Messiah... The Messiah will seat Himself on the Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies on Mount Moriah. He will replace the Ark that had symbolized Him, in the place where God had first fellowshipped with Adam and Eve, the same place the Divine Presence dwelt among His People! Just as a branch from the Tree of Life was kept before the Ark, He will set the almond rod before Himself on the Throne of God, where the Tree of Life had grown in the Garden of Eden." ( Rod of an Almond Tree , p. 135)

  http://www.watch.pair.com/brit-empire.html

  So there is an alternative interpretation for the tree of crucifixion among the secret socities, of which we know the WTS has been a part of from the earliest. British-Isralism is focussed on the royal bloodlines and Russel is listed as one of those royal bloodline families. So we can hardly ignore that. We may be seeing some influence of some of those traditions expressed in WTS artwork and some teachings, maybe taking advantage of asserting Jesus was impaled on a tree or stake rather than a cross. Maybe the WTS indeed is paying tribute to that ancient legendary significance of the impalement tree. Anti-Catholicism and anti-Pope is another strong tenant of the early WTS which would connect them to British-Israelism. I think one of their early publications calculates the "666" in connection with one of the Popes. If the WTS was used as a new front organization for a version of British-Israelism (i.e. they are also thought as a sister organization to the Mormons, another British-Israeli based cult) then one would expect some of those doctrines would end up expressed in their publications.

  JCanon